Which 5 Would You Rather Have?

Cooley Cadets said:
His TD's were up last year over the previous but not over an extended period.

How do you defend no decline in skill? The # of receptions have been similar but the ypc has been going down without any swings upward. It isn't like I am saying he is a has been but there is definitely signs of a decline.

AJ and Fitz are at the top of everyone's wish list for the WR position. I would jump ahead of the curve and go with Miles, Rice and maybe even the Jacksons in front of him.
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I defend no decline in skill because he is 26 and going into his prime. He will get better as he gains even more experience and is in a more stable environment. His skills haven't declined, his situation changed with a different QB in 2009 and the team situation changed with a new coach. Eddie Royal went from an up and coming star to non-existant in the same scenario. Scheffler disappeared in the new offense. Marshall on the other hand maintained his reception total, increased his TDs and only dropped a yard in YPC. Pretty impressive actually.

Most top receivers go up and down in YPC. It's probably the least controlable for a receiver. If he runs more underneath routes, his YPC will more than likely be lower. Again, he caught over 100 passes in 15 games. Also, to say his TDs haven't been up over an extended period is deceiving. He's only been a starter for three years. What constitutes an extended period? 2 years?


BTW, Fitz's YPC was down over 3 yards in 2009. Guess his skills are in decline too. Better drop him in the rankings............
 
Miller said:
are we still debating who is the most mediocre of the 3 mediocre newbies???
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It was a very average supplemental draft talent wise. I guess you get that when three 6-7 teams leave the league. Last year was an exception as three fairly stacked teams bailed.

Good choices though on the three newbies. This was already an exceptional league and it got even better with the new additions....................

Once the trading starts, it will separate the men from the boys. Lets see who takes advantage to strengthen their keeper base.........................
 
efactor said:
I defend no decline in skill because he is 26 and going into his prime. He will get better as he gains even more experience and is in a more stable environment. His skills haven't declined, his situation changed with a different QB in 2009 and the team situation changed with a new coach. Eddie Royal went from an up and coming star to non-existant in the same scenario. Scheffler disappeared in the new offense. Marshall on the other hand maintained his reception total, increased his TDs and only dropped a yard in YPC. Pretty impressive actually.

Most top receivers go up and down in YPC. It's probably the least controlable for a receiver. If he runs more underneath routes, his YPC will more than likely be lower. Again, he caught over 100 passes in 15 games. Also, to say his TDs haven't been up over an extended period is deceiving. He's only been a starter for three years. What constitutes an extended period? 2 years?


BTW, Fitz's YPC was down over 3 yards in 2009. Guess his skills are in decline too. Better drop him in the rankings............
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So no 26 year old has ever peaked early? The situation changes to some extent on a yearly basis. As you point out he became the focus of the new offense and still slipped.

Yes, fluctuation is common - in my opinion a 3 year slide is worth noting. To claim his TDs havessteadily improved over the 3 year period is deceiving. I just pointed out that although they went up over the previous season it has not been a trend that extends beyond that.

Your Fitz example shows the fluctuation - but fails on demonstrating any extended trend. But go ahead and drop him in your rankings if you want.
 
Cooley Cadets said:
So no 26 year old has ever peaked early? The situation changes to some extent on a yearly basis. As you point out he became the focus of the new offense and still slipped.

Yes, fluctuation is common - in my opinion a 3 year slide is worth noting. To claim his TDs havessteadily improved over the 3 year period is deceiving. I just pointed out that although they went up over the previous season it has not been a trend that extends beyond that.

Your Fitz example shows the fluctuation - but fails on demonstrating any extended trend. But go ahead and drop him in your rankings if you want.
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He wasn't the focus of the offense any more in 2009 than he was in 2007-2008. He maintained the same numbers while everyone else around him dropped dramatically, which just shows what a great talent he is. Even with defenses focusing on him, he still had an outstanding season.

Fitz's YPC fell more in one year than Marshall's fell in three years, so using your logic, his skills eroded more than Marshalls. My logic says it was due to other factors, same in the case of Marshalls. I would be happy to have either because they are two of the 3 most skilled WRs in the league who are still coming in to their primes.
 
efactor said:
He wasn't the focus of the offense any more in 2009 than he was in 2007-2008. He maintained the same numbers while everyone else around him dropped dramatically, which just shows what a great talent he is. Even with defenses focusing on him, he still had an outstanding season.

Fitz's YPC fell more in one year than Marshall's fell in three years, so using your logic, his skills eroded more than Marshalls. My logic says it was due to other factors, same in the case of Marshalls. I would be happy to have either because they are two of the 3 most skilled WRs in the league who are still coming in to their primes.
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If the team produces less and he stays the same while the others drop off... that is the teams focus.

Don't play with my logic you'll hurt yourself. Your logic makes excuses for back to back seasons. Go be happy.
 
Cooley Cadets said:
If the team produces less and he stays the same while the others drop off... that is the teams focus.

Don't play with my logic you'll hurt yourself. Your logic makes excuses for back to back seasons. Go be happy.
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No excuses are needed when you catch 100 passes and double digit TDs. I'll take that all day long.

I think only Marvin, Jerry Rice and Welker have 3 straight 100 catch seasons. Not bad company, especially for a guy who has only been the starter for 3 years.
 
Sorry, I don't see how anyone can make a logical argument that a guy who has surpassed 100 rec in each ofc the last 3 years and is only 26 is showing a declining skill set.
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Miller said:
Sorry, I don't see how anyone can make a logical argument that a guy who has surpassed 100 rec in each ofc the last 3 years and is only 26 is showing a declining skill set.
Posted via Mobile Device
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Easy - compared to where he started there has been signs of a decline. I don't believe you will find in any of my posts that as a result he is no longer an upper tier WR.
 
not easy....delusional! So Manning was in a state of declining skill the year after he tossed 49 TD's?? Based on your argument he was.....after all from where he was the year before there were signs of decline....

Get out of the stat geek world and WATCH the players.....you watch Marshall for any amount of time at all and you should quickly see how silly your argument is.
 
Miller said:
not easy....delusional! So Manning was in a state of declining skill the year after he tossed 49 TD's?? Based on your argument he was.....after all from where he was the year before there were signs of decline....
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You and E both want to compare apples and oranges that is fine. Review my posts and see if you can tell where you went astray on your own.
 
lol, there are no apples or oranges....you make this claim that Brandon Marshall's SKILLS are declining....WATCH him, just once and tell me how you can make that claim. You say b/c yds and ypc.....hmmm, ever think that offensive talent around him may have a much bigger part in that combined with defensive focus than his "skills" declining??? how in the hell do you have over 100 catches a year with declining skills....please explain.....your on an island on this one CC.....
 
Miller said:
lol, there are no apples or oranges....you make this claim that Brandon Marshall's SKILLS are declining....WATCH him, just once and tell me how you can make that claim. You say b/c yds and ypc.....hmmm, ever think that offensive talent around him may have a much bigger part in that combined with defensive focus than his "skills" declining??? how in the hell do you have over 100 catches a year with declining skills....please explain.....your on an island on this one CC.....
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Cooley Cadets said:
Marshall is in a 3 yr slide, on a new team
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Cooley Cadets said:
3. No misconception - his yardage (and ypc) has been in a slow decline
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Cooley Cadets said:
How do you defend no decline in skill? The # of receptions have been similar but the ypc has been going down without any swings upward. It isn't like I am saying he is a has been but there is definitely signs of a decline.
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Cooley Cadets said:
So no 26 year old has ever peaked early? The situation changes to some extent on a yearly basis. As you point out he became the focus of the new offense and still slipped.

Yes, fluctuation is common - in my opinion a 3 year slide is worth noting. To claim his TDs have steadily improved over the 3 year period is deceiving. I just pointed out that although they went up over the previous season it has not been a trend that extends beyond that.
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Cooley Cadets said:
If the team produces less and he stays the same while the others drop off... that is the teams focus.
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Cooley Cadets said:
Easy - compared to where he started there has been signs of a decline. I don't believe you will find in any of my posts that as a result he is no longer an upper tier WR.
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Cooley Cadets said:
You and E both want to compare apples and oranges that is fine. Review my posts and see if you can tell where you went astray on your own.
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Since you obviously did not do your assignment - here are my posts relating to Marshall.

Where do I say his skills are declining? That argument was raised by e not me. I do consider a 3 year span worthy of consideration when evaluating and do see a sign of decline in production. Is it all due to his "skill set" no but his production has been negatively impacted and if you think the supporting cast is to blame then there is even more room for concern with the change to Miami.

You are willing to consider other factors but dismiss a decline out of hand because he is still at the top of his game - everything is relative but he has gone from starting all 16 games - 15 - 13 and was probably the deciding factor in the season finale last year as a result.

I have no problem with the island M, just don't contaminate it with your and e's refuse.
 
Got to agree with Miller here, CC.

You can argue that his fantasy production is declining, his stats are declining, his opportunities are declining, his reputation is declining, his attitude is declining, his effort is declining etc.

But the guy is the most talented receiver I have ever seen play football and I don't think a loss of skills will come until old age sets in.

Goodness...he looks like a high school kid playing in a Pop Warner league when he's on the field.
 
cctekguy said:
Got to agree with Miller here, CC.

You can argue that his fantasy production is declining, his stats are declining, his opportunities are declining, his reputation is declining, his attitude is declining, his effort is declining etc.

But the guy is the most talented receiver I have ever seen play football and I don't think a loss of skills will come until old age sets in.

Goodness...he looks like a high school kid playing in a Pop Warner league when he's on the field.
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Agreed.
 
cctekguy said:
Got to agree with Miller here, CC.

You can argue that his fantasy production is declining, his stats are declining, his opportunities are declining, his reputation is declining, his attitude is declining, his effort is declining etc.

But the guy is the most talented receiver I have ever seen play football and I don't think a loss of skills will come until old age sets in.

Goodness...he looks like a high school kid playing in a Pop Warner league when he's on the field.
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No problem with that ctek. Not like I expected my comment to be a condemnation of the player or to get this type of response.

I definitely do not consider him the best I have seen and I do not think the move to Miami is going to be a cure all for him either.
 
Cooley Cadets said:
Where do I say his skills are declining?
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Damn, that's a easy one, you even quoted it for me:
How do you defend no decline in skill? The # of receptions have been similar but the ypc has been going down without any swings upward. It isn't like I am saying he is a has been but there is definitely signs of a decline.


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You ask e how he defends no decline in skill and go on to say there are definitely signs of decline....YOUR WORDS, not mine....

Quit flip flopping, either you stand behind your words that he is declining in skills or you don't....but those were YOUR WORDS!

And here are MY WORDS:
Sorry, I don't see how anyone can make a logical argument that a guy who has surpassed 100 rec in each of the last 3 years and is only 26 is showing a declining skill set.
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If you weren't making trying to make an argument that he is showing a declining skill set than why did you respond?? I didn't call you out by name so you would have had to assume it was you and then made the decision to try to defend your argument.....notice, I said nothing about declining numbers....I was very specific: declining skill set

And you responded that is was EASY....here are YOUR WORDS again:
Easy - compared to where he started there has been signs of a decline. I don't believe you will find in any of my posts that as a result he is no longer an upper tier WR.
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So I make a statement about the subject of declining skill set and you in a direct response to my statement stated it was easy to make the logical argument that he has a declining skill set....You responded....NOT ME.....again, YOUR WORDS!!!

So....you still want to claim you never stated his skills were declining??? YOu may want to realize what you are posting next time.....
 
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