What Should Texas Do?

[Sgt John]

I support spandex and softball

 

[Miller]

LOL! You tell me if it sucks, I wouldn't know!

Mighty Big Ten, lol!

Last decade:

Rose Bowl wins: Pac-10 5, Big Ten 1
Orange Bowl wins: Pac-10 2, Big Ten 2
Fiesta Bowl wins: Big Ten 3, Pac-10 2
BCS bowl wins: Pac-10 9, Big Ten 6

Pac-10 vs. Big Ten head to head:
Pac-10 32 wins, Big Ten 21 wins (.604 winning % for Pac-10)

See now this is something you should have stated to begin with.....instead of bullshit like the Pac-10 will keep on winning National titles. As I have pointed out, in the sports that matter, you win no more than we do aside from Baseball and the Big 10 makes up for that with Hockey which in the North is as important as Baseball is in the South and West.....

In the end, that .604 winning % against the Big 10 gave you 1 NC, 2 NC appearences compared to 1 championship and 3 NC appearances for the Big 10.

But again, this whole thing comes down to a number far more important than even wins and losses and it is money....Big 10 has it, Pac-10 is chasing it....may get it in the end, but we are there.

It's been fun, but we keep running in circles here, this one goes into to the agree to disagree vault I think.....

 

[Miller]

Also, postulation on if the Big 10 becomes the (theoretical) Big 16:

College Football's Own Volcano Is About To Erupt | Bleacher Report

On thing that I find interesting is that there's guaranteed to be a big time Pac-16 vs Big 16 match-up every year with the Governor's Cup for the Kansas vs Kansas State game.

Interesting read! No one is talking about the SEC, but you have to wonder. From a "fit" standpoint, Texas to the SEC would end up being a home run that no one could match. They fit better from a geographic standpoint and the money in the SEC is crazy.

That sure would qualify as a volcano erupting!

 

[Kingdome]

man, when you add in the water polo stats, I guess you really do have us crushed in national titles! :rolllaugh:

I add in your fencing titles. Fencing. Where do you find fencers these days? Water polo is pretty popular in unfrozen pond country. That's why Pac-10 country has swimming & water polo champions while Big Ten country has hockey. This further highlights why Texas is a better fit in unfrozen pond country.

All these sports listed, while being awesome competitions for the students who are on scholarship to play for the school in them, are simply not relevant when you're trying to make a case for conference superiority.

Sure they are relevant. Not as relevant as football & basketball, but still relevant. Take a look at the weighted index which weights football & men's basketball 10 to 20 times more than the other sports.

I guarantee you, when the Texas administration sits down with the athletic department to discuss the potential deals offered by the Big 10 and/or Pac 10, they will not have the FIRST discussion about a move's possible ramifications to their (insert sport from above) team.

Right, they are going to look at every single one of their teams the possible ramifications. Those smaller sports do matter, look at the multi million dollar facilities they have at Texas.

Would a majority of Americans want to watch any of them as much as we do the others? Sorry.

With conferences moving towards the 24 hour network model, what are going to put on the air after basketball season? I assume baseball, softball, & track & field. Or does the Big Ten use that time for fencing coverage?

And before the point is made that those are the sports shown on the Big Ten network in the spring when there's no football/basketball on, I have a rebuttal. The only time someone's watching the Big Ten network during the spring is for the spring football game coverage for the teams, or they're drunk and ready to pass out at 3 in the morning and an abstract thought popped into their head that watching a Big Ten rowing meet might be "awesome."

In other words the Big Ten network doesn't have the potential of a Pac-10 channel. I can't wait for a Pac-10 channel so I can see more baseball, softball, & women's volleyball. Rowing on TV sucks, but out here its big & we have a huge annual booze/boat fest on opening day.

 

[Kingdome]

See now this is something you should have stated to begin with.....instead of bullshit like the Pac-10 will keep on winning National titles. As I have pointed out, in the sports that matter, you win no more than we do aside from Baseball and the Big 10 makes up for that with Hockey which in the North is as important as Baseball is in the South and West.....

Texas is in unfrozen pond country. They swim in those ponds, not skate upon them. You are making my case for me, thanks!

In the end, that .604 winning % against the Big 10 gave you 1 NC, 2 NC appearences compared to 1 championship and 3 NC appearances for the Big 10.

Pac-10 has 2 Natl. Titles in the last decade. Also, why look at championship appearances? The Pac-10 is so tough that we usually knock each other out of the title game. That's one of the negatives of playing every single team each year in a tough conference.

Over the past decade, the Pac-10 has a winning record head to head vs. every conference except the Big 12 where it is just one game under .500 (22-23).

it's been fun, but we keep running in circles here, this one goes into to the agree to disagree vault I think.....

Heck yeah, reminds me of the FSW days. Just ask Sarge, I once made the case why the Pac-10 is better than the SEC, at football! But that was before Saban went to Alabama & Florida erupted.

 

[Kingdome]

Interesting read! No one is talking about the SEC, but you have to wonder. From a "fit" standpoint, Texas to the SEC would end up being a home run that no one could match. They fit better from a geographic standpoint and the money in the SEC is crazy.

There are so many SECesque programs within arms reach of the SEC, that they should have no trouble finding additional members. Some of those southern ACC schools resemble the SEC more than the ACC IMO. I am wondering ho much longer Florida & Vandy ignore the academics in the rest of the conference. Also the SEC is very top heavy compared to other conferences, another aspect of the SEC few people bring attention to.

 

[Miller]

Pac-10 has 2 Natl. Titles in the last decade. Also, why look at championship appearances? The Pac-10 is so tough that we usually knock each other out of the title game. That's one of the negatives of playing every single team each year in a tough conference.

Sorry, your 2003 split doesn't mean jack in the BCS era. They have a system, and LSU won....split titles were gay prior to the BCS, and completely irrelevent now. As much as I hate the sytem, we have one.
BCS National Championship Game - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry, USC's 2004 title team in their lone Natl title in the last decade that I will recognize.

And you're not the SEC, you don't knock each other out of the NT each year....outside of USC who has been the last Pac-10 team to finish in the top 5 in the final rankings?

Using the AP rankings from 2002 (lazy, ESPN's page goaes back to 02) here are the teams from both confrences who have finished in the top 10, I even listed the USC spit for your viewing pleasure here :
2002 - USC (4); Wash St (10); Ohio St (1); Iowa (8); Michigan (9)
2003 - USC (1); Wash St (9); Ohio St (4); Michigan (6); Iowa (8)
2004 - USC (1); Cal (9); Iowa (8)
2005 - USC (2); Penn St (3); Ohio St (4)
2006 - USC (2); Ohio St (2); Wisc (7); Mich (8)
2007 - USC (3); Ohio St (5)
2008 - USC (3); Oregon (10); Penn St (8); Ohio St (9)
2009 - Ohio St (5); Iowa (7); Penn St (9)

Since 2002 not a single team in the Pac-10 outside of USC has finished in the top 8 in the AP!! Only 3 other teams have finished in the top 10, and only one of them, Wash St, has done this more than once.

Over that same time, both Ohio St and Penn St have finished in the top 5 and 5 teams total (compared to 4) have logged top 10's, 4 of them have done it at least twice.

This shows two things, 1, the Pac-10 does have the most dominant team in the two leagues in USC. But they are not great outside of that 1 team Making it basically a 1 team confrence on the National Scene. If they were so "tough", they would have a little more depth in their presence on this list.

Total top 10's since 2002: Pac-10 - 11; Big-10 - 18

 

[Miller]

Heck yeah, reminds me of the FSW days. Just ask Sarge, I once made the case why the Pac-10 is better than the SEC, at football! But that was before Saban went to Alabama & Florida erupted.

I love discussions like this, this is the best college talk we have had here in a while!

 

[Kingdome]

Sorry, your 2003 split doesn't mean jack in the BCS era. They have a system, and LSU won....

USC would have kicked LSU's butt that year. America knew it, which is why USC won the title.

2 titles. That's what America recognizes.

And you're not the SEC, you don't knock each other out of the NT each year....

The Pac-10 plays everyone each year unlike the SEC. The SEC loads up on non-con creampuffs & then skip some of the powers in the other division. Just look up and see how many times Alabama & Georgia have played each other since they expanded. Look at missed Pac-10 Natl. title opportunities and you will likely see a Pac-10 loss, not a non-con loss even though the Pac-10 usually plays the toughest non-con schedule!

outside of USC who has been the last Pac-10 team to finish in the top 5 in the final rankings?

Last top 10 finishes, Pac-10 & Big Ten:

2009 - Ohio State, Penn State, Iowa
2008 - USC, Oregon

2006 - Michigan, Wisconsin

2004 - California
2003 - Washington State


2000 - Washington, Oregon State
1999 - Michigan State
1998 - Arizona, UCLA

1996 - Arizona State
1995 - Northwestern


1992 - Stanford


1989 - Illinois









1979 - Purdue











1967 - Indiana




1962 - Minnesota

This shows two things, 1, the Pac-10 does have the most dominant team in the two leagues in USC.

Take away USC & Ohio State the last decade:

BCS bowl wins: Pac-10 3, Big Ten 2
Head to head: Pac-10 23 wins, Big Ten 16 wins

But they are not great outside of that 1 team Making it basically a 1 team confrence on the National Scene. If they were so "tough", they would have a little more depth in their presence on this list.

Pac-10 is the deepest conference in the land. Every single program has finished in the top 10 since 1992. Every program except Cal & Arizona have played in a BA/BCS bowl game.
# of programs to play in a BCS level bowl game since 1995:

Pac-10 8 (80% of conference)
Big Ten 8 (73%)
Big East 5 (63%)
Big 12 7 (58%)
SEC/ACC 6 (50%)

 

[Miller]

USC would have kicked LSU's butt that year. America knew it, which is why USC won the title.

2 titles. That's what America recognizes.

When in the fock did the AP become America??? We have a system, and LSU won.

Last top 10 finishes, Pac-10 & Big Ten:

2009 - Ohio State, Penn State, Iowa
2008 - USC, Oregon

2006 - Michigan, Wisconsin

2004 - California
2003 - Washington State


2000 - Washington, Oregon State
1999 - Michigan State
1998 - Arizona, UCLA

1996 - Arizona State
1995 - Northwestern


1992 - Stanford


1989 - Illinois









1979 - Purdue











1967 - Indiana




1962 - Minnesota





Take away USC & Ohio State the last decade:

BCS bowl wins: Pac-10 3, Big Ten 2
Head to head: Pac-10 23 wins, Big Ten 16 wins

Total top 10's since 2002: Pac-10 - 11; Big-10 - 18

7 more top 10 season in just the last 8 years!!

Pac-10 is the deepest conference in the land.

:biglaugh:

Seriously, you have to be kidding.....again, since 2002 you have had 1 freaking team that has even been in legitimate title contention.....ONE!!!

You can bring in all the old numbers you want, but for almost a decade this has been USC and their band of spoilers.....that is all they have done is take turns are ruining USC seasons as they choke away title chances.

This year they finally dethorned their King and someone else gets a shot to be relevent nationally and the buckeyes kicked their ass.....so ummm, NO, not near the deepest confrence.

# of programs to play in a BCS level bowl game since 1995:

Pac-10 8 (80% of conference)
Big Ten 8 (73%)
Big East 5 (63%)
Big 12 7 (58%)
SEC/ACC 6 (50%)

so you want a cookie because you only have 10 teams instead of 11?? Think you just made the point that the Big 10 has just as many teams finish in the top 10, and I've already pointed out we do it MUCH more often!
Total top 10's since 2002: Pac-10 - 11; Big-10 - 18

​

 

[Kingdome]

When in the fock did the AP become America??? We have a system, and LSU won.

What was the LSU-USC score? Everyone but a few bitter clinger LSU & USC fans recognize both teams as champions. Most people believe USC would have destroyed LSU if they played that year.

Seriously, you have to be kidding.....again, since 2002 you have had 1 freaking team that has even been in legitimate title contention.....ONE!!!

Since 2000 we have had Washington, Oregon, Oregon State, & USC (multiple times) go for titles. 2000 Washington who beat 3 BCS teams that year only lost at Top 10 Oregon. Oregon State's only loss was a last minute FG @ #3 Washington. Those losses kept those teams out of the NC game. In 2001, Oregon's only loss was to Stanford, which kept the Ducks out of the NC game. In 2003, USC's crazy last minute loss @ Cal led to the shared Natl. Title. From 2006-2008, in conference losses kept USC out of the Natl Championship game. Over this same period, USC beat Arkansas, Notre Dame x 3, Nebraska x 2, Michigan, Virginia, Illinois, Ohio State, & Penn State.

You can bring in all the old numbers you want, but for almost a decade this has been USC and their band of spoilers.....that is all they have done is take turns are ruining USC seasons as they choke away title chances.

It is because the Pac-10 is the toughest conference top to bottom & plays everyone every year. In the Big Ten, you have awful programs like Indiana, and you do not play as many conference games meaning you can feast on some MAC school rather than play say a top 25 Iowa team.

The Pac-10 plays 9 conference games plus the nation's toughest non-conference schedule. Big Ten only plays 8 conference games in a conference not as strong top to bottom. See the difference yet? That's why the Pac-10 doesn't play in the championship game or crack the top 10 as often as teams in weaker conferences who feast on creampuffs.

This is a few years old, but I bet the #s have not changed much:

Toughest schedules over 10 year period (ending 2005 or 2006 I think)

1). Stanford 12.78
2). USC 13.22
3). UCLA 14.56
4). Florida State 14.78
5). Washington 15.56
6). Notre Dame 16.44
7). Colorado 17.44
8). Michigan 19.67
9). North Carolina 20.22
10). California 21.89
11). Iowa 23.56
12). Ohio State 23.67
13). Penn State 25.11
14). Florida 25.56
15). Texas A&M 25.67
16). Arizona 26.56
17). Alabama 26.78
18). Arizona State 27.78
19). Tennessee 28.56
20). Northwestern 29.11
21). South Carolina 29.33
22). LSU 29.67
22). Virginia 29.78
24). Auburn 29.78
25). Washington State 30.33
26). Oklahoma 30.56
27). Duke 30.67
28). Michigan State 30.89
29). Purdue 32.11
30). Oregon 32.33
31). Indiana 32.33
32). Oregon State 32.78
33). Nebraska 33.78
34). Georgia 33.78
35). Georgia Tech 34.78
36). Illinois 35.33
37). Texas 35.89
38). Iowa State 35.89
39). Miami 36.67
40). Baylor 36.78
41). Clemson 37.67
42). Kentucky 38.11
43). Arkansas 38.67
44). Wake Forest 39.33
45). Oklahoma State 39.44
46). NC State 39.44
47). Missouri 40.56
38). Wisconsin 40.78
49). Vanderbilt 41.89
50). Syracuse 41.89
51). Kansas 42.11
52). Mississippi State 42.56
53). Maryland 44.11
54). Minnesota 46.11
55). Kansas State 46.56
56). Texas Tech 47.22
57). West Virginia 49.11
58). Virginia Tech 50.11
59). Mississippi 54.11
60). Boston College 55.00
61). Rutgers 59.33




Pac-10 22.78
Big Ten 30.79
SEC 34.19
Big XII 36.67
ACC 36.05
Big East 50.11

.so ummm, NO, not near the deepest confrence.

What conference is deeper? Big Ten with 3 programs who haven't cracked the top 10 since the Carter administration or before? The SEC with 6 programs who have either never cracked the top 10 or haven't in the last 25 years? ACC with Duke? Big 12 with Iowa State, Baylor?

 

[mudloggerone]

I agree with an earlier post Miller made, if Texas is in the market for a new league we should make room for them in the SEC. Talk about a win, win!

 

[Miller]

all those numbers do not change the fact that :

Total top 10's since 2002: Pac-10 - 11; Big-10 - 18

Feel free to continue to go back......sure all your teams take turns being OK....but seems like some of your teams seem to take turns being the suck of the nation as well. WSU was top 10 not too long ago and they have also been around the bottom 10 in BCS schools recently....same can be said for Washington....Just becasue your bottom dwellers rotate, does not mean you are deeper top to bottom. Big 10 is not either, the SEC is, and it's not close.
​

 

[Kingdome]

all those numbers do not change the fact that :

Total top 10's since 2002: Pac-10 - 11; Big-10 - 18

Pac-10 plays 9 conference games, in a deeper conference, plus the nation's toughest non-conference schedule. Meanwhile the Big Ten only plays 8 conference games meaning in some years, you could miss playing 1 or 2 top 25 teams! See how you have an easier ride yet?

Feel free to continue to go back......sure all your teams take turns being OK....but seems like some of your teams seem to take turns being the suck of the nation as well. WSU was top 10 not too long ago and they have also been around the bottom 10 in BCS schools recently....same can be said for Washington....Just becasue your bottom dwellers rotate, does not mean you are deeper top to bottom.

WSU has the biggest geographical disadvantage in D1 football. It amazing they have had one top 10 season, let alone 3 in a row. Washington was in the dumper for political reasons. 100% self inflicted by PC stupidity. We went a quarter century + without a losing season before the PC clown president took over.

Big 10 is not either, the SEC is, and it's not close.

Big Ten & Big 12 are not deeper than the Pac-10. Half of the teams in the SEC haven't been in the top 25 in over 25 years. 2 of them never have been, ever. The Big Ten has three teams that haven't been in the top 25 in over 30 years.

Meanwhile the Pac-10 has seen 100% of its members ranked in the top 10 since 1992, and has a winning record vs. both the Big Ten & SEC since 2000.

 

[Miller]

And yet all of that Net's them a significantly less number of top 10 finishes in the Nation per conference. Too bad all those dominant teams keep finding ways to not make a dent into the top 10...sigh.....

And put the NFL lists in the right thread, trying to keep this one somewhat relevant to the title

 

[bodey24]

Big Ten & Big 12 are not deeper than the Pac-10. Half of the teams in the SEC haven't been in the top 25 in over 25 years. 2 of them never have been, ever. The Big Ten has three teams that haven't been in the top 25 in over 30 years.

Which teams would that be? Just curious.

 

[bodey24]

Pac-10 is the deepest conference in the land.

:biglaugh: Thanks I needed a good laugh!

 

[Miller]

I knew it was only time till the SEC homer got involved, this can really be fun now

 

[bodey24]

I knew it was only time till the SEC homer got involved, this can really be fun now

haha I was going to stay out of it till he said the Pac-10 is the deepest conference in the land. I was really enjoying your guys debate and didn't feel the need to jump in till he said that.

 

[mudloggerone]

:biglaugh: Thanks I needed a good laugh!

A really, really big laugh at that. The KGB must be burning in the great NorthWest.