Stallworth Suspended Indefinitely

[Phicinfan]

It's definitely a crime, and a serious one....the problem I have is Goodell playing Judge and Jury here and trying to make up for where HE feels the courts came up short. The courts have set up a sentence that allows Stallworth to continue to make a living in his profession.....for Goodell to prevent this long term is an abuse of power. Suspend him for 8 games....fine, but to make this indefinate or over 8 games seems like an abuse of power.

Okay first this won't remain indefinate. He states that in his letter when he requests a meeting with Stallworth.

Secondly, I believe there may be an issue with his house arrest. I assume he will have to get a Judge's permission to play in away games. Until all that is worked out....he can't help anyone.

Lastly....he isn't playing judge and jury. He is commissioner of a league. He intends to protect the honor of that league. While I won't debate he has been really stupid in some cases, he is merely trying to see what exactly will happen. Personally...two years is fine.

 

[Cooley Cadets]

It stopped being an accident and became a crime when Stallworth got behind the wheel of his car legally drunk and killed Mr. Reyes, and thats why he pleaded guilty to vehicular manslaughter.

This my last post on this subject since im the only one that see's this as a serious crime and not an accident. :banghead: :headscratch:

I think part of our differences are I do not consider crime and accident as mutually exclusive.

Manslaughter is murder light - still pretty serious but on the criminal scale has the potential of lowering the sentence dramatically. I have not seen anyone claiming Stallworth tried or intended to kill Mr. Reyes. I have also not seen anyone condone the drinking and driving.

Involuntary manslaughter is manslaughter light - still pretty serious but again a reduction in culpability is added to the mix because it occurred involuntary during the commission of some other unlawful act (drunk driving).

Vehicular manslaughter, DUI manslaughter... are forms of involuntary manslaughter. It is the reduced intent (aka accident) at the time of the crime, by the defendant, that invites leniency not a belief that one life is less important than another.

Knowing there is likely some variation state to state on the specifics of manslaughter I referenced wikipedia rather than any legal text to confirm my suspicions but would be happy to hear back from anyone who believes I have misstated anything.

 

[Cooley Cadets]

It's definitely a crime, and a serious one....the problem I have is Goodell playing Judge and Jury here and trying to make up for where HE feels the courts came up short. The courts have set up a sentence that allows Stallworth to continue to make a living in his profession.....for Goodell to prevent this long term is an abuse of power. Suspend him for 8 games....fine, but to make this indefinate or over 8 games seems like an abuse of power.

I agree, my concern is not so much whether Stallworth should receive a stiff or lenient punishment from the league I simply think the league needs to decide based on the some established set of criteria other than the current whims of Goodell.

 

[Cooley Cadets]

Well, first the Little incident was BEFORE the new tough guy regime of Goodell. So by definition this should be more stringent yes?

If the punishment is to be more stringent then it should be clarified what it is going to be and then be applied consistently.

Considering the fiasco spygate turned into and lack of "toughness" Goodell has displayed against ownership his "toughness" against individual players that have been crucified in the media and portrayed as pariahs to the league image has really been nothing but being a bully of bullies.

Vick and now Stallworth really have not fit the profile of the others, but they have received the most severe penalties with no end established. I believe Vick will have to make personal amends to Goodell for having the audacity to lie to him - not for the offense for which he was banned. The use of an indefinite suspension is improper in the legal and business fields.

 

[Cooley Cadets]

Okay first this won't remain indefinate. He states that in his letter when he requests a meeting with Stallworth.

Secondly, I believe there may be an issue with his house arrest. I assume he will have to get a Judge's permission to play in away games. Until all that is worked out....he can't help anyone.

Lastly....he isn't playing judge and jury. He is commissioner of a league. He intends to protect the honor of that league. While I won't debate he has been really stupid in some cases, he is merely trying to see what exactly will happen. Personally...two years is fine.

But it is indefinite now and there is no date set for meeting with Stallworth.

It was my understanding that his sentence took into consideration the nature of his work and allowed for it to happen. The away games I thought I read involved a reporting in process.

He isn't playing judge and jury because the punishment would have been meted out. He is doing much worse holding everything in limbo until HE feels like making the sentence public. I think the focus of this thread from the other is not what the punishment from the league should be but rather that there should be some framework for which the commish to be operating and making a decision rather than this ongoing mystery about extent and

 

[Miller]

Okay first this won't remain indefinate. He states that in his letter when he requests a meeting with Stallworth.

Secondly, I believe there may be an issue with his house arrest. I assume he will have to get a Judge's permission to play in away games. Until all that is worked out....he can't help anyone.

Lastly....he isn't playing judge and jury. He is commissioner of a league. He intends to protect the honor of that league. While I won't debate he has been really stupid in some cases, he is merely trying to see what exactly will happen. Personally...two years is fine.

Two years would be excessive, inconsistent, and irrational IMO. What previous issues did Stallworth have? Again, the House arrest is not an issue from what I have heard from the talking head legal analysts state. This is why the Judge did the HA, so he can have a structure in which he can continue in his profession. He would be able to attend practice, meetings, and road trip for the games. So if the courts have decided this and that is what the sentence for the crime was....how in the hell is a two years suspension warranted for a guy who only was sentanced to 30 days in jail. Hell, Jamal Lewis didn't get 2 yrs for his jail time for dealing drugs.....

I am not going to debate if the sentance was light or not, it's irrelevent and I do think it was on the light side. But that does not give Goodell the right to play judge and jury here and take him out of his profession for 2 years.....if he does, that is EXACTLY what he is doing, and he's hiding behind the shield of his office in order to do so.

 

[Miller]

current whims of Goodell.

That is my issue here.....seems like that is what you get with him...Billy hard ass one minute and sam the softie the next....no consistency....and it sure as hell doesn't do a damn thing to protect the image of the NFL the way he rules on these issues extremely inconsistently.

 

[Phicinfan]

Two years would be excessive, inconsistent, and irrational IMO. What previous issues did Stallworth have? Again, the House arrest is not an issue from what I have heard from the talking head legal analysts state. This is why the Judge did the HA, so he can have a structure in which he can continue in his profession. He would be able to attend practice, meetings, and road trip for the games. So if the courts have decided this and that is what the sentence for the crime was....how in the hell is a two years suspension warranted for a guy who only was sentanced to 30 days in jail. Hell, Jamal Lewis didn't get 2 yrs for his jail time for dealing drugs.....

I am not going to debate if the sentance was light or not, it's irrelevent and I do think it was on the light side. But that does not give Goodell the right to play judge and jury here and take him out of his profession for 2 years.....if he does, that is EXACTLY what he is doing, and he's hiding behind the shield of his office in order to do so.

Per Philly sources he has had two issues with the drug policy as well. So he is not clean by league standards. Just FYI

 

[Miller]

Per Philly sources he has had two issues with the drug policy as well. So he is not clean by league standards. Just FYI

I have to question those sources....if he had two there would have been a 4 game suspension and he does not have a drug suspension. So he may be in the program but prior to the DUI I don't see how he had two drug issues without a suspension.

But if he does have a prior drug issue, this DUI makes an auto 4 gamer.....due to the tragic consequences of the DUI an increased suspension makes sense...but again, making it indefinite, or extremely severe is not consistent with the consequences handed down by the law, which would means Goodell is trying to play Judge and Jury here....

 

[Phicinfan]

Per Philly sources he has had two issues with the drug policy as well. So he is not clean by league standards. Just FYI

Actually, I think my 2 years is spot on. But need some help here to make sure.

First, I quote the letter sent to Stallworth by Goodell. I won't cut and paste the whole thing...just the part I think is really important here....

“The conduct that led to your conviction plainly violates both the Personal Conduct and Substances of Abuse policies. Either provides me with full authority to take appropriate disciplinary action against you, including a fine or suspension without pay, and to impose appropriate conditions on your continued participation in the NFL. In this case, there is ample evidence to warrant significant discipline under both policies.

Since he invoked both the substances abuse AND the personal conduct.....here is my thinking.

I believe a third time offesne to the substance portion is a one year automatic suspension. Per a Philly news source he was already a 2 time offender before. Add to that the 8 game conduct penalty that Little got...and add to it the multiple offense issues.....and I think 2 years is spot on.

 

[Miller]

again.....if he was a two time offender per the substance abuse program in the NFL he would have received a 4 game suspension. This has not occurred, so this is not his third strike. This would still be his first suspension.

8 games is the max I find reasonable....2 years is simple a joke IMO.

But Goodell is making it a habit to make a joke out of his discipline policy so anything is possible....

 

[Runnik's Hambones]

2 years is ridiculous.

 

[Miller]

More his the reports on him being in the drug program. This is from an 07' report when he signed with NE:

League and union officials are investigating a Philadelphia Inquirer report that Stallworth is in the NFL's substance-abuse program, sources from both parties told ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli.

Citing unnamed sources, the Philadelphia Inquirer reported Monday that Stallworth is a participant in the league program, and that he could be subject to suspension if he suffered a repeat violation of its conditions. The newspaper also reported that a breach of the program's confidentiality agreement can warrant a league fine, and NFL and NFL Players Association officials began to seek out possible sources for the leak on Monday.

I have found nothing since then and if he would have had something since then it would have resulted in a suspension....so if this is the case it is NOT his third violation, it would be his 2nd.....4 game suspension, not a year. Double it for the circumstances.....fine, but 4 games to 32....seriously???

 

[Runnik's Hambones]

I could see a 4 game suspension as completely fair. I think a full year suspension alone is too much. I mean, I get it, he killed a guy. But this is a player with a clean slate and you have to weigh in how he's handled this situation.

 

[Phicinfan]

I could see a 4 game suspension as completely fair. I think a full year suspension alone is too much. I mean, I get it, he killed a guy. But this is a player with a clean slate and you have to weigh in how he's handled this situation.

My point is though he does not have a clean slate. Yes, he has no prior arrest record....I think. But he was already on watch with the NFL for substance abuse.

Even if this is ONLY his second issue.....that would be 4 games there...but you have to add the 8 games that Little got as well wouldn't you? How can you give less to Stallworth than what the "easier" NFL did to little?

That is basically one year or 12 games. I am betting on longer though. Heck Pacman got a year...and wasn't guilty or no pleads for guilty.

 

[Cooley Cadets]

Quote:
“The conduct that led to your conviction plainly violates both the Personal Conduct and Substances of Abuse policies. Either provides me with full authority to take appropriate disciplinary action against you, including a fine or suspension without pay, and to impose appropriate conditions on your continued participation in the NFL. In this case, there is ample evidence to warrant significant discipline under both policies.

This in no way references any prior violations it is stating that the drunk driving violations the substance abuse policy and the driving/manslaughter violation is also a personal conduct policy violation.

 

[Cooley Cadets]

My point is though he does not have a clean slate. Yes, he has no prior arrest record....I think. But he was already on watch with the NFL for substance abuse.

Even if this is ONLY his second issue.....that would be 4 games there...but you have to add the 8 games that Little got as well wouldn't you? How can you give less to Stallworth than what the "easier" NFL did to little?

That is basically one year or 12 games. I am betting on longer though. Heck Pacman got a year...and wasn't guilty or no pleads for guilty.

Being watched - does anyone know exactly what that means? What was the 1st incident? Has anyone established there was a 2nd? Being on double secret probation is not the same as having been proven to have done something wrong. I haven't seen that information provided in this thread.

Why would the 4 games be considered separately than the over all punishment? What was Little's status at the time of his suspension? I am still seeing Little with a history and Stallworth without one as an apples and oranges comparision. The same is true with your Pacman reference. Talk about a history.

 

[DearbornDolfan]

I agree, my concern is not so much whether Stallworth should receive a stiff or lenient punishment from the league I simply think the league needs to decide based on the some established set of criteria other than the current whims of Goodell.

Why? The NFL is a private organization, not a government subject to the will of the people. Employment in the NFL isn't far removed from at will, in which the NFL reserves the right to suspend from league activities anyone who has violated the NFL's various behavioral policies. Stallworth did that big time, so any punishment he receives from the NFL will be deserved.

 

[Runnik's Hambones]

Why? The NFL is a private organization, not a government subject to the will of the people. Employment in the NFL isn't far removed from at will, in which the NFL reserves the right to suspend from league activities anyone who has violated the NFL's various behavioral policies. Stallworth did that big time, so any punishment he receives from the NFL will be deserved.

I agree and I don't agree here. First, I'm on your side about how Goodell should make decisions and it shouldn't be up to anyone else because he's the commish, it's his job.

Where I disagree with you, is that whatever he deems as his punishment is well deserved. While I think it should be his call, if he does hypothetically give Stallworth a 2 year ban, I don't believe that was deserved.

 

[Cooley Cadets]

Why? The NFL is a private organization, not a government subject to the will of the people. Employment in the NFL isn't far removed from at will, in which the NFL reserves the right to suspend from league activities anyone who has violated the NFL's various behavioral policies. Stallworth did that big time, so any punishment he receives from the NFL will be deserved.

The NFL is an employer and is subject to regulation as any other employer. I have never known of any other employer issuing indefinite suspensions for prolonged periods to employees without a system in place to promptly establish a definite period. How long has the NFL had to make that determination for Vick?

Again this thread has not focused on the actual punishment imposed (since we don't know what that will be) but the procedure (or more accurately the lack of one). Goodell continues to misuse the authority of his office by failing to address this void in the policy.