New England vs. Indy - Inflategate?!?!?

JScott

Administrator
Only difference is he didn't over inflate them, or get caught with 11 or 12 over inflated.

If he didn't over inflate them why would the refs have to deflate them to get them into spec? Over inflating a football and hoping the refs don't catch it and deflate them sure seems like trying to cheat. And if the refs catch the over-inflation isn't that getting caught trying to cheat?

And no, there is nothing that says anything about GB re-inflating after inspection so I am not comparing their actions to what the Patriots are accused of in the AFCC game. I just know how you feel about BB and the Patriots as prior cheaters and feel others who feel the same are making this out to be another Spygate, when a lot of players have said this is very common.

I'm not saying that just because everyone does it that it makes it okay, just that the Patriots have really stupid ball boys. ;)
 

Remote Controller

Well-Known Member
The nfl has never has never accused the Packers of inflating balls. Now they are on record of accusing the Patriots of deflating them.
 

JScott

Administrator
The bottom line is, everyone who has every played football who was interviewed today said this happens all the time by everyone. The outrage is because it's the Patriots, not because of the act.
 

cctekguy

Staff member
No mention of temperature in this discussion?

What temp are the balls tested at compared to game time temp? Teams use ovens to keep the balls warm...what temperature compared to testing temperature.

If you test a ball @ 72* in the locker room and put it into 35* playing temperatures, the pressure is going to go down. If they tested "warmed balls" prior to the game and later checked field temp balls, that could EASILY equate to a 2 psi difference.
 

JScott

Administrator
No mention of temperature in this discussion?

What temp are the balls tested at compared to game time temp? Teams use ovens to keep the balls warm...what temperature compared to testing temperature.

If you test a ball @ 72* in the locker room and put it into 35* playing temperatures, the pressure is going to go down. If they tested "warmed balls" prior to the game and later checked field temp balls, that could EASILY equate to a 2 psi difference.

But wouldn't the IND balls deflate the same way?
 

JScott

Administrator
On SVP & Russillo (ESPN radio) someone called in saying they were a former DEN ball boy, and described how they would hold their footballs in front of the heater and the opponents in the snow before throwing them into the refs. What this tells me is the Patriots have really stupid ball boys :D
 

Remote Controller

Well-Known Member
Just wait and see what happens when your situation becomes a pacman jones situation like this has just become. I'd say a year suspension isn't out of the question. It's deserved.....you have to earn those.
 

cctekguy

Staff member
But wouldn't the IND balls deflate the same way?

C'mon man, you're smarter than this. :p

On SVP & Russillo (ESPN radio) someone called in saying they were a former DEN ball boy, and described how they would hold their footballs in front of the heater and the opponents in the snow before throwing them into the refs. What this tells me is the Patriots have really stupid ball boys :D

AHA!

Admit it JScott....I nailed it BEFORE the report :cool:


I'll let you slide, though. You proved me right after questioning my brilliance.

Just don't ever doubt me again :D
 

Phicinfan

Expert on nothing, opinionated on everything
Administrator
The bottom line is, everyone who has every played football who was interviewed today said this happens all the time by everyone. The outrage is because it's the Patriots, not because of the act.
With all due respect you are wrong on alot of counts here.

1) multiple Qbs have stated that a change in the ball pressure can be a huge help with grip and control.
2) This isn't the first complaint against the Patriots THIS year, Baltimore noticed as did Indy in the previous in season game. OH, and that game was played in a dome, so Temp. has no effect.
3) Rules are there for a reason, whether we understand it or not, isn't the point. The point is once again, NE felt it was above the rules.
4) Rodgers stated he loves an over inflated ball, and that he doesn't like if the Refs deflate a ball - nowhere does he admit the team over inflated, you are making assumptions. Alot of Qbs like a harder ball for better grip, but he never said they over inflated and refs caught him and deflated.
5) Yes, alot of this outrage is due to it being the Patriots, but here is the thing, don't they deserve it? They are showing continued effort to circumvent the rules. No one is making them do it, they are CHOOSING to do it.
 

JScott

Administrator
With all due respect you are wrong on alot of counts here.

1) multiple Qbs have stated that a change in the ball pressure can be a huge help with grip and control.
2) This isn't the first complaint against the Patriots THIS year, Baltimore noticed as did Indy in the previous in season game. OH, and that game was played in a dome, so Temp. has no effect.
3) Rules are there for a reason, whether we understand it or not, isn't the point. The point is once again, NE felt it was above the rules.
4) Rodgers stated he loves an over inflated ball, and that he doesn't like if the Refs deflate a ball - nowhere does he admit the team over inflated, you are making assumptions. Alot of Qbs like a harder ball for better grip, but he never said they over inflated and refs caught him and deflated.
5) Yes, alot of this outrage is due to it being the Patriots, but here is the thing, don't they deserve it? They are showing continued effort to circumvent the rules. No one is making them do it, they are CHOOSING to do it.

You're putting a lot of words in my mouth. And I take no disrespect from your post. This is just good conversation.

1.) I never said an altered ball isn't a benefit for a QB to grip (over or under). Obviously breaking in a ball has advantages (haven't heard anyone say "huge advantage). It's why every team does it.
2.) I never said anything about this only being a one time thing. Never addressed it one way or the other.
3.) I never said NE were choir boys. But every other fan base pointing the finger at them, as if their teams are choir boys is ridiculous.
4.) If Rodgers' footballs were within spec @13.5psi, why would the refs deflate them? They wouldn't. The only reason to deflate them is if they were over. That is an obvious simple assumption.
5.) I never said they didn't deserve it. I understand it. I only pointed out (which you agree with) is that it's this big due to it being the Patriots.

So I'm not sure how I'm wrong on a lot of counts.

I'm only pointing out the over-reaction by the other fan bases, that most coaches and players said this is much to do about nothing. And I'm not saying that if the NFL finds that they cheated that they shouldn't be punished. They absolutely should. But the reaction is akin to NE robbing a bank when they're being accused of speeding IMHO.
 

JScott

Administrator
For anyone interested here's the transcript of Belichick local presser from about 30 minutes ago...

“When I came in Monday morning I was shocked to learn of the news reports about the footballs. I had no knowledge whatsoever about this situation until Monday morning. I’ve learned a lot more about this process in the last three days than I knew — or had talked about — in the last 40 years that I’ve coached in this league. I had no knowledge of the various steps involved in the game balls, the process that happened between when they were prepared and went to the officials and went to the game, so I’ve learned a lot about that. Obviously, I understand that each team has the opportunity to prepare the balls the way they want, give them to the officials, and the game officials either approve or disapprove the balls, and that really was the end of it for me, until I learned a little bit more about it the last couple days.

“Let me just say that my personal coaching philosophy, my mentality, has always been to make things as difficult as possible for players in practice, and so with regard to footballs, I’m sure that any current or past player of mine would tell you that the balls we practice with are as bad as they can be. Wet, sticky, cold, slippery, whatever. However bad we can make them, I make them. Any time that players complain about the quality of the footballs, I make them worse, and that stops the complaining. So we never use the condition of the footballs as an excuse. We play with whatever, or kick with whatever we have to use, and that’s the way it is. That has never been a priority for me, and I want the players to deal with the harder situation in practice than they’ll ever have to deal with in a game. Maybe that’s part of our whole ball security philosophy.

“I’m trying to coach the team and that’s what I want to do. I think we all know that quarterbacks, kickers, specialists have certain preferences on the footballs. They know a lot more than I do. They’re more sensitive to it than I am. I hear them comment on it from time to time, but I can tell you and they will tell you that there’s never any sympathy whatsoever from me on that subject. Tom’s personal preferences on his footballs are something that he can talk about in much better detail and information than I could possibly provide.

“I can tell you that in my entire coaching career I have never talked to any player, staff member about football air pressure. That is not a subject that I have ever brought up. To me, the footballs are approved by the league and game officials pre-game, and we play with what’s out there. And that’s the only way that I have ever thought about that.

“I’ve learned about the inflation range situation, obviously, with our footballs being inflated to the twelve and a half pound range, any deflation would then take us under that specification limit. Knowing that now, in the future we will certainly inflate the footballs above that low level to account for any possible change during the game. As an example, if a ball deflated from 13.2 to 12.9, it wouldn’t matter, but if it deflated from 12.5 to 12.3, it would — as an example. So we will take steps in the future to make sure we don’t put ourselves in that type of potential situation again.

“The National Football League is investigating the situation. We have cooperated fully, quickly and completely with every request that they have made, continue to be cooperative in any way that we can. I have no explanation for what happened, and that’s what they’re looking into, so I can’t comment on what they’re doing. That’s something that you should talk to them about. Again, my overall knowledge of football specifications, the overall process that happens on game day with the footballs, is very limited. I would say that during the course of the game, I honestly never — it probably has happened on an incomplete pass or something — I’ve never touched a game ball. That’s not something that I have any familiarity with on that. And again, I was completely and totally unaware of any of this that we’re talking about in the last couple days, until Monday morning. Based on what I knew Sunday night, thinking back on this, which I’ve done several times, I can’t think of anything that I would have done differently, based on what I knew then, based on what I know now. I’ve told you the one thing based on the initial start level of the football pressure, but that’s really about it.

“It’s really unfortunate that this is a story coming off two great playoff victories by our football team and our players, but again we’ve been cooperative with the NFL investigation. We’ll continue to do so, and we’ll turn all our attention, focus on the Seattle Seahawks. They are a very talented, tough football team. We’ve spent the last four days, three days, with our preparations and so forth with the trip. Those are coming to a conclusion, we’re wrapping that up, and we’re starting our preparations today for the Seahawks and practicing through the weekend so we’ll have a good, solid opportunity to get ourselves ready to go before we head down there.

“Again, I have no further comment on the NFL investigation, and I’ve told you all I know about the subject from my perspective. So that’s where we are.”
 

Phicinfan

Expert on nothing, opinionated on everything
Administrator
You're putting a lot of words in my mouth. And I take no disrespect from your post. This is just good conversation.

1.) I never said an altered ball isn't a benefit for a QB to grip (over or under). Obviously breaking in a ball has advantages (haven't heard anyone say "huge advantage). It's why every team does it.
2.) I never said anything about this only being a one time thing. Never addressed it one way or the other.
3.) I never said NE were choir boys. But every other fan base pointing the finger at them, as if their teams are choir boys is ridiculous.
4.) If Rodgers' footballs were within spec @13.5psi, why would the refs deflate them? They wouldn't. The only reason to deflate them is if they were over. That is an obvious simple assumption.
5.) I never said they didn't deserve it. I understand it. I only pointed out (which you agree with) is that it's this big due to it being the Patriots.

So I'm not sure how I'm wrong on a lot of counts.

I'm only pointing out the over-reaction by the other fan bases, that most coaches and players said this is much to do about nothing. And I'm not saying that if the NFL finds that they cheated that they shouldn't be punished. They absolutely should. But the reaction is akin to NE robbing a bank when they're being accused of speeding IMHO.
Fair enough, I may have stated it to stringently, my bad.
Not sure I still agree with 5). It is not that they are the Patriots its that they are repeat offenders.
I also agree , that all teams try to do somethings to get an edge, but do they break rules? I find it funny, that as an organization and HC they are listed as being brilliant, and yet they continue to be caught in these ridiculous attempts to circumvent the rules.

As for me, I still don't buy his explanation. I am not a Patriots hater, I find their success amazing for as long as they have been able to do it. But I also believe in the mantra, fool me once shame on me, fool me twice shame on you.
 

JScott

Administrator
Not sure I still agree with 5). It is not that they are the Patriots its that they are repeat offenders.
Sorry, yes when I said they were "the Patriots" I meant that they are the past cheaters, arrogant franchise, flippant head-coach (all that goes into it). So we agree.

I also agree , that all teams try to do somethings to get an edge, but do they break rules? I find it funny, that as an organization and HC they are listed as being brilliant, and yet they continue to be caught in these ridiculous attempts to circumvent the rules.
Agree. The difference between "pushing" the rules and being a cheater is that you got caught. lol ... The "brilliant" Patriots are bad at it. They need to stop hiring the help off Craigslist.
 

Beermutts

Raven Maniac
Moderator
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