ExperiencedRookie
Well-Known Member
But if he was good for 63 Rec, 1700 Yds, and 12 TDs what makes anyone think that now with Jay Cutler, Forte will be a bust?
Let your gut speak.....who will you avoid this year?
- Thread starter Miller
- Start date
But if he was good for 63 Rec, 1700 Yds, and 12 TDs what makes anyone think that now with Jay Cutler, Forte will be a bust?
WesDawg
'Burghapologist
Honestly, I could care less what his YPC is unless that's a countable stat in my league.
Forte: 300 carries x 4 YPC = 1200 yds. Throw in receiving stats as you see fit.
RBBC guy X: 255 carries x 4.7 YPC (considered adequate, yes?) = 1199 yds.
Usually style points aren't considered in standard scoring formats. I'll certainly drop Forte into the late first/early second round in yards per carry drafts.
EDIT:
Curtis Martin, who I owned on many a team in the mid to late 90's, was a HOF caliber running back and immense fantasy contributor (most years)
His career line: 3518 rushes, 14101 yards, 4.0 YPC
Just sayin'
Forte: 300 carries x 4 YPC = 1200 yds. Throw in receiving stats as you see fit.
RBBC guy X: 255 carries x 4.7 YPC (considered adequate, yes?) = 1199 yds.
Usually style points aren't considered in standard scoring formats. I'll certainly drop Forte into the late first/early second round in yards per carry drafts.
EDIT:
Curtis Martin, who I owned on many a team in the mid to late 90's, was a HOF caliber running back and immense fantasy contributor (most years)
His career line: 3518 rushes, 14101 yards, 4.0 YPC
Just sayin'
efactor
Coming at you
NOBODY has said Forte will be a bust. The topic is who are you shying away from and most of that is based on where someone is being drafted.
Sure, I would take Forte in a second if he was available in the 2nd round. I'm just not spending a first rounder on him, which means he has virtually zero chance to be on any of my teams because someone will take him in the first..............
Cooley Cadets
Banned
Exactly only I would probably be willing to take him in the late 1st - just not the #2-3 spot where he seems to be going.
ExperiencedRookie
Well-Known Member
WesDawg
'Burghapologist
I respect and agree with your logic, ER, but I long to be in a league where someone takes Westy at 5.
Can we all just agree to disagree here? I mean, the worst I've seen Forte pre-ranked at was #4 overall. I'll listen to any debate that puts AP at #1 overall, and groups Turner, MJD, Forte, and probably Chris Johnson in that next tier. Maybe Steve Jackson if you're buying into the bounceback year theory. You can win with any of those guys, but some folks like one over the other for whatever reason. Some guys rise or fall depending on the format (PPR, Dynasty/Keeper, etc)
My only beef here is citing something as insignificant (in fantasy) as a ROOKIE RB'S yards per carry as a reason to drop him from potentially the #2 overall pick to a late-first round face in the crowd.
Like I said earlier, invite me into your 12-team league, slot me at #8 and give me Forte. Let's see what happens.
Can we all just agree to disagree here? I mean, the worst I've seen Forte pre-ranked at was #4 overall. I'll listen to any debate that puts AP at #1 overall, and groups Turner, MJD, Forte, and probably Chris Johnson in that next tier. Maybe Steve Jackson if you're buying into the bounceback year theory. You can win with any of those guys, but some folks like one over the other for whatever reason. Some guys rise or fall depending on the format (PPR, Dynasty/Keeper, etc)
My only beef here is citing something as insignificant (in fantasy) as a ROOKIE RB'S yards per carry as a reason to drop him from potentially the #2 overall pick to a late-first round face in the crowd.
Like I said earlier, invite me into your 12-team league, slot me at #8 and give me Forte. Let's see what happens.
ExperiencedRookie
Well-Known Member
I can tell you what is going to happen. You're going to have a real nice start to a championship caliber team.
Who knows what kind of value will fall to you in the 3rd and 5th Rds when teams 1-7 pass on other amazing players.
efactor
Coming at you
Again, your mancrush on Forte is blinding you. There are more than seven "amazing players" available in this years draft so if you are in a league where the first 7 pass on Forte, that doesn't mean they don't know their stuff and other players will slide. Sorry, but none of your logic makes sense that Forte is more of a sure thing this year than several other players mentioned and that anyone passing on him in the top 8 is an idiot.
You may very well be correct and Forte will light it up, but he's not like drafting LT or Faulk in their primes where you will have a huge advantage pretty much assured.
And yes, I would grab Gore before Forte this year. Just think he is a more talented player and with Singletary as the coach, they will be committed to the run and his receptions will climb back into the 50-60 range.
We all know our stuff or we wouldn't be hanging out on a FF website 12 months a year, so we'll see how it plays out. I may very well change my opinion of Forte as the season gets closer to where I might grab him in the 10-12 range, but don't see it changing enouogh to commit a top 6 pick to him.
Anyway....................
ExperiencedRookie
Well-Known Member
WesDawg
'Burghapologist
Top-6? When this discussion started I thought it was top-8?
And you may want to squash the "man-crush" cliche'. Most people personally don't care about anything else outside of how many points he rakes in for a fantasy team by year's end. The fact is, he was fantastic as a 1st year player, and he represents nothing but upside due to his team's offseason additions. He's really no different than DeWill and Turner, both of whom you always rank higher, in that he's only had one season of relevance.
This is about you randomly underrating a guy for no tangible reason and getting called out on it. It's akin to you constantly referring to Peterson as the 4th overall best RB and saying it's because he doesn't catch many passes out of the backfield or something.
And you may want to squash the "man-crush" cliche'. Most people personally don't care about anything else outside of how many points he rakes in for a fantasy team by year's end. The fact is, he was fantastic as a 1st year player, and he represents nothing but upside due to his team's offseason additions. He's really no different than DeWill and Turner, both of whom you always rank higher, in that he's only had one season of relevance.
This is about you randomly underrating a guy for no tangible reason and getting called out on it. It's akin to you constantly referring to Peterson as the 4th overall best RB and saying it's because he doesn't catch many passes out of the backfield or something.
efactor
Coming at you
All I can say is WOW! As in, this post is way off base:
1) Top 6 or 8, who cares? I used top 6 because that is about as far as I have seen him fall, which means I would probably have to take him top 6, which I won't. That number had nothing to do with the previous post where top 8 was referenced.
2)Didn't realize the man-crush "cliche" would offend you so much. But what else can you call it when a 2nd year player with a 3.9 YPC is talked about like he is one of the greats of the game? Forte had good numbers because he had a ton of opportunity. Still averaged under 4 a carry and while that is not relevant to FF when looking back at a season, it says that maybe he isn't the kind of back who can have a big season without getting the same amount of opportunity again. Again, I just wasn't impressed that much and don't expect a repeat numbers wise. Also, the suggestion that those passing on Forte early were making a huge mistake is unfounded. There are plenty of players who have the talent and situation to out perform Forte, so just a matter of choice.
3)Nothing but up upside due to the additions to the team? Sorry, no. Less opportunity equals less statistics in most situations. Don't think they got Cutler to hand the ball off.
4) While I don't remember doing enough posting on this site to "always" rank Williams and Turner higher, I would take both of them before Forte. Williams is an amazing combination of power and speed and has much more big play capability. Every highlight of a Panther game seemed to be of the back of his jersey as he ran away from everyone. Even with a 60/40 split, he will put up big numbers in that offense, with that line and the fewer carries will help keep him healthy. Turner is another guy who simply has more talent than Forte although his being non-existent in the passing game would be a concern if I was playing in a PPR.
5) As far as randomly underrating a guy, nothing random about it. He had an excellent 08 because of the huge amount of opportunity he had. The YPC concerns me and again, I just don't see the raw talent that makes me want to spend a high pick on him. Nothing personal. If I thought he could help me win, I would draft him. I also don't think having Cutler will help him that much statistically, as they will pass more and he will have less opportunity, and unlike someone like Williams, he won't do more with less.
6) As far as being "called out", I didn't realize we were back in 5th grade. You have given no more reason to justify where you will pick him than I have on why I wouldn't. You think he has upside because of Cutler coming in, I think it will give him less opportunity. You think he is the 2nd coming, I think he over achieved statistically because he was the only option last year. Time will tell who is right.
BTW, I have never and probably won't in the immediate future rank Peterson anywhere but number one, even in PPR leagues...............:shake:
efactor
Coming at you
ExperiencedRookie
Well-Known Member
Don't get it twisted Wes. Forte, outside of being a fantasy beast, is one sexy devil!:gay2:
ExperiencedRookie
Well-Known Member
This is going to be just another fun thread to re-visit come January.
Cooley Cadets
Banned
I could definitely see the argument that he had all that opportunity because there was no passing game to pose a threat to opposing D's. 3.9 is not bad for a rookie if the opponent is keying on you. Less opportunities would indicate the passing game is enjoying some success and should create the possibility of Forte reducing his touches but increasing his ypc.
Less carries + higher ypc could equal better stats. Cutler opens the O and moves some of the focus away from Forte
Good for Turner should be just as good for Forte.
The draft format plays a huge role in my selection of Forte. In a redraft I have him dropping into the later 1st round. In dynasty I can see someone investing a higher pick for him even though I, like you, have my doubts. Everyone differs on player evaluation. You do not see opening the passing game as a benefit to Forte where others can make a pretty persuasive argument that it will. Isn't this why we play the game?
ExperiencedRookie
Well-Known Member
Chicks with herpes.
