Burress Plea

Phicinfan

Phicinfan

Expert on nothing, opinionated on everything
Administrator
Cooley Cadets said:
Your lack of care for many things is evident. So be it.

Wow. It is apparent you are married to your bias/position and can not get past the possibility of someone reacting in any manner, even if sober, than braking. You may have some history that makes you more sensitive to drunk driving than someone going out and committing crimes with a gun - if so, good luck dealing with that.
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You are the only person I know, who accusses someone of not listening, when you are the epitome of not listening....and then accuse someone of past history or bias effecting their judgement. You have got to be the most rediculous person I have seen here.

Here are the facts, you can ignore them, but it does not change them.

Stallworth made the personal decision to drink and drive. No excuses.
In that decision, another person was killed.
YOU can suppose it was not all Stallworth's fault. That is your position and that is fine. But lets be clear here. That is ONLY your opinion. You continue to state the evidence does blame Stallworth's drinking. Well, guess what...it does not exhonerate him either. Had he not been out drinking all night, and then driven...he would not have killed that person. It is really all that simple.

Now we go to Burress. He in his infinite wisdom, decided he HAD to carry a loaded gun, with the safety off (oh, it wasn't registered either.....:nono: ) and shot himself. Now, of the two crimes...which was more hazardous to an innocent bystander? But yet who got the worst of the punishment?

It is all that simple. It is a farce. But thank God for the NYC justice system...they at least followed the law, and proper jurisprudence.
 
C

Cooley Cadets

Banned
Phicinfan said:
You are the only person I know, who accusses someone of not listening, when you are the epitome of not listening....and then accuse someone of past history or bias effecting their judgement. You have got to be the most rediculous person I have seen here.

Here are the facts, you can ignore them, but it does not change them.

Stallworth made the personal decision to drink and drive. No excuses.
In that decision, another person was killed.
YOU can suppose it was not all Stallworth's fault. That is your position and that is fine. But lets be clear here. That is ONLY your opinion. You continue to state the evidence does blame Stallworth's drinking. Well, guess what...it does not exhonerate him either. Had he not been out drinking all night, and then driven...he would not have killed that person. It is really all that simple.

Now we go to Burress. He in his infinite wisdom, decided he HAD to carry a loaded gun, with the safety off (oh, it wasn't registered either.....:nono: ) and shot himself. Now, of the two crimes...which was more hazardous to an innocent bystander? But yet who got the worst of the punishment
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Who did I say was not listening Phic? You are jumping without a net again showing those paying attention who is the ridiculous one. If you cared to understand what I posted I disagreed with leaving the analysis at simply recognizing Stallworth's victim died therefore he deserves the more serious punishment. If you have something more to contribute to why he is the more culpable please add to the conversation, which would be a welcome change.

The facts are that Stallworth's "innocent" victim contributed to the accident if he did not outright cause it. You can choose to gloss over that fact and focus only on Stallworths blame if you like but do not pretend that you are attempting to remain objective.

Yes which is more hazardous? Stallworth drank, went home and eventually drove and had an accident that would not have occurred if several things did not occur, one of them being the contributing negligence of another individual.

Burress decided to take a gun... gee wonder why that was?
To a public place... gee that is another winning idea?
Decided to handle the gun in that public place... gee, wonder what that was about?
Discharged the gun in a public place... gee thanks for at least only being incompetent enough to hurt yourself before you shot someone else.

It can be relatively simple if you don't check your common sense at the door.
 
Phicinfan

Phicinfan

Expert on nothing, opinionated on everything
Administrator
Cooley Cadets said:
Who did I say was not listening Phic? You are jumping without a net again showing those paying attention who is the ridiculous one. If you cared to understand what I posted I disagreed with leaving the analysis at simply recognizing Stallworth's victim died therefore he deserves the more serious punishment. If you have something more to contribute to why he is the more culpable please add to the conversation, which would be a welcome change.

The facts are that Stallworth's "innocent" victim contributed to the accident if he did not outright cause it. You can choose to gloss over that fact and focus only on Stallworths blame if you like but do not pretend that you are attempting to remain objective.

Yes which is more hazardous? Stallworth drank, went home and eventually drove and had an accident that would not have occurred if several things did not occur, one of them being the contributing negligence of another individual.

Burress decided to take a gun... gee wonder why that was?
To a public place... gee that is another winning idea?
Decided to handle the gun in that public place... gee, wonder what that was about?
Discharged the gun in a public place... gee thanks for at least only being incompetent enough to hurt yourself before you shot someone else.

It can be relatively simple if you don't check your common sense at the door.
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:nono:
Well, guess what...it does not exhonerate him either. Had he not been out drinking all night, and then driven...he would not have killed that person. It is really all that simple.
 
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C

Cooley Cadets

Banned
Phicinfan said:
:nono:
Well, guess what...it does not exhonerate him either. Had he not been out drinking all night, and then driven...he would not have killed that person. It is really all that simple.
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Welcome to the conversation but if you want simple at least point out who is trying to exonerate him?
 
Mike

Mike

Administrator
I tend to somewhat agree with Cooley on this. The man had alcohol in his system, but it doesn't mean this was the cause of the accident. It is a point that must be considered, which is why the sentence wasn't much heavier.

I say this because in my job, we often get caught up in something very similar. As a truck driver, we are regulated on how much we can drive, when we can drive, when we must sleep, and damn here when and were we can breathe. Far too often, a lawywer will get ahold of a drivers log book following an accident and somehow place blame on the driver because of a mistake in that book. It no longer matter than a car ran a red light, or a pedestrian walked out in front of the truck, or a car crossed the median into oncoming traffic. Nope, because the driver drove 1 hour longer than he should have, he is now also at fault because "he shouldn't have been at the scene of the accident", which is bullshit. Not only is he at fault, he likely loses his job and goes to jail over something that was in no way his fault.

Back to Stallworth. Admittedly, I haven't followed the story closely. I rarely pay close attention to off the field situations regarding players. But, if alcohol wasn't the determining cause of the accident, then I don't see how we can still continue to blame it on him drinking.

Give the guy a DWI as a result of the accident, because he was over the limit. But don't put any further blame on the guy unless he is truly at fault. (Again, making this point based on a general attitude toward this, not anything specific that regarding this situation because I haven't followed it)
 
Phicinfan

Phicinfan

Expert on nothing, opinionated on everything
Administrator
Mike said:
I tend to somewhat agree with Cooley on this. The man had alcohol in his system, but it doesn't mean this was the cause of the accident. It is a point that must be considered, which is why the sentence wasn't much heavier.

I say this because in my job, we often get caught up in something very similar. As a truck driver, we are regulated on how much we can drive, when we can drive, when we must sleep, and damn here when and were we can breathe. Far too often, a lawywer will get ahold of a drivers log book following an accident and somehow place blame on the driver because of a mistake in that book. It no longer matter than a car ran a red light, or a pedestrian walked out in front of the truck, or a car crossed the median into oncoming traffic. Nope, because the driver drove 1 hour longer than he should have, he is now also at fault because "he shouldn't have been at the scene of the accident", which is bullshit. Not only is he at fault, he likely loses his job and goes to jail over something that was in no way his fault.

Back to Stallworth. Admittedly, I haven't followed the story closely. I rarely pay close attention to off the field situations regarding players. But, if alcohol wasn't the determining cause of the accident, then I don't see how we can still continue to blame it on him drinking.

Give the guy a DWI as a result of the accident, because he was over the limit. But don't put any further blame on the guy unless he is truly at fault. (Again, making this point based on a general attitude toward this, not anything specific that regarding this situation because I haven't followed it)
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see, don't get me wrong here.

I fully understand there was NO proof that had he not been drinking he would not have hit the person. I also fully understand that if the person had not jay walked...it might not have happened.

Here though is the one thing neither you, nor Cooley can deny. Period. Had Stallworth NOT been out all night, drinking, and then driven home....the man would still be alive.

So...the point is really that simple. Don't be out all night partying like a fool, then get behind a wheel. He did, and basically skated on it. Great justice system. Life is only worth the celebrity that takes it.
 
Mike

Mike

Administrator
and if the guy had not walked out in the road, this wouldn't have happened.

Basically, what you are saying is the same exact thing I commented on. People will say that had the truck driver not driven over his mandated hours, the accident wouldn't have happened. Whose fault it actually was is no longer relevant.

Again, give the guy a DWI for drinking and driving, but don't blame him for the accident unless he is truly at fault. Being out late is not a fault, it is not anybody's place in society to decide when we should or shouldn't be out and about.
 
Phicinfan

Phicinfan

Expert on nothing, opinionated on everything
Administrator
Mike said:
and if the guy had not walked out in the road, this wouldn't have happened.
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You have no more proof of this, then we have that the alcohol was a relating factor.

Mike said:
Basically, what you are saying is the same exact thing I commented on. People will say that had the truck driver not driven over his mandated hours, the accident wouldn't have happened. Whose fault it actually was is no longer relevant.

Again, give the guy a DWI for drinking and driving, but don't blame him for the accident unless he is truly at fault. Being out late is not a fault, it is not anybody's place in society to decide when we should or shouldn't be out and about.
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No, it is not the same. Not even close. What you talk about is a technicality. The driver still had all his faculties, and was a capable driver. I understand your story, had an uncle that was a truck driver and he showed me how he had to maintain logs. But at the end of the day, he knew he was not tired when they said he was to stop.

However, in the Stallworth case it is not that clear and simple. HE decided he wanted to party, and knew he was drinking. He could have called a cab, gotten a ride, or just took a bus. NO. He made the choice to get behind the wheel. That MAKES him liable for that decision. It is clear fact that if you are over the limit, you are impaired in your driving. Was it the absolute final cause....we don't know. It also does not matter, had he done the right thing and NOT drive...it wouldn't have happened.

Now, take your truck driver...and he did drive too long, and was too tired to react. Is he any less resposible? Yes, he is.
 
C

Cooley Cadets

Banned
Phicinfan said:
Here though is the one thing neither you, nor Cooley can deny. Period. Had Stallworth NOT been out all night, drinking, and then driven home....the man would still be alive.

So...the point is really that simple. Don't be out all night partying like a fool, then get behind a wheel. He did, and basically skated on it. Great justice system. Life is only worth the celebrity that takes it.
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I do not believe anyone has denied he had alcohol in his system and that he was over the legal limit.

I have not seen anywhere how he left the party, when he left the party, what residence he went to, how long he stayed/slept there, whether he was still drinking while there...

You can make is as simple as you like by focusing only on certain aspects favorable to your decision. You can continue to try and paint me as attempting to exonerate him but that is as over simplified (wrong) as your punishment by result approach. If you want to think that the justice system should give every OWI defendant 2 years of prison time good for you, but don't spew hate and discontent with baseless allegations that Stallwoth's celebrity was the motivating factor for his sentence.
 
Phicinfan

Phicinfan

Expert on nothing, opinionated on everything
Administrator
Cooley Cadets said:
I do not believe anyone has denied he had alcohol in his system and that he was over the legal limit.

I have not seen anywhere how he left the party, when he left the party, what residence he went to, how long he stayed/slept there, whether he was still drinking while there...

You can make is as simple as you like by focusing only on certain aspects favorable to your decision. You can continue to try and paint me as attempting to exonerate him but that is as over simplified (wrong) as your punishment by result approach. If you want to think that the justice system should give every OWI defendant 2 years of prison time good for you, but don't spew hate and discontent with baseless allegations that Stallwoth's celebrity was the motivating factor for his sentence.
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Had he not been out drinking all night, and then driven...he would not have killed that person. It is really all that simple.
 
MtTacWa

MtTacWa

Old Jackass...
Alcohol will many people do stupid things in their lives....I'll admit to that.

Never pulled out a gun while drunk though.......
 
C

Cooley Cadets

Banned
Phicinfan said:
Had he not been out drinking all night, and then driven...he would not have killed that person. It is really all that simple.
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Calm down lil Phi fan. We heard you the 1st time and I do not believe I have seen a single post that contradicts that little nugget of information you keep hoisting overhead for all to see.

Try expanding out from the simple and looking at the other facts and factors. It really is pretty simple to do once you overcome the intimidation of the yet unexplored.
 
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