Tom Brady

cctekguy said:
You must be an old curmudgeon. :kneeslap:
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I prefer "seasoned" curmudgeon :harumph: Ha, actually you tell me, I'm "Jeff" in those who've liked the SO FB page below. :nono:


And I'm giving Rodgers his props. He is a top QB in the NFL right at the top but I would still rather have Manning or Brady just ahead of him and Brees if I HAD to win one game. That's my criteria for "best" QB. Others I'm sure have different ones which is why our top fives are different.
 
JScott said:
Sure I'm a NE homer but honestly as good as Rodgers is IMHO there's a bit of the "flavor of the month" going on with him and his SB win. Three years ago Rapistberger would have been in this conversation after winning his 2nd SB. Heck until Brees won his he was considered 2nd tier compared to Manning/Brady. After another team wins the SB this season Rodgers will fall back to 3rd/4th.
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In my estimation the differnce comes from Rodgers' mobility. Brady''s lack of can get him in trouble now, but as long as Rodgers is smart while mobile.....and goes down...he can now make all the plays, and a few more than Brady or Manning.

I have always stated that if I could pick 1 QB (alltime) at his prime, to build a team around it would be Steve Young.
 
JScott said:
How in the world can you justify Rivers before Manning/Brady and even Brees?
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Good question.

First let me say I am going by NFL expectations this year, not fantasy pts.
Second, I am looking at offense to run, tools to use and O-line.
Rodgers has a huge benefit of the fact that offense throws and throws alot, and will continue to do so.
Rivers is in the same boat. I am not a Matthews fan, nor Tolbert. I think with a really healthy Gates, and V.J. back, he will be huge this year.
Manning is back from a Neck injury. Add to that a very, very young O-line, with no camp to train with. He may not make a full season folks, you heard it here first.
Brees will be effected in that they plan to go back to Duece McCallister moad with Ingram. So less passing.
Brady - Bellicheck magic is fading, and I think they have holes especially at o-line that will kill them. But he is still Brady, in that offense.

that is why.
 
Phicinfan said:
Good question.

First let me say I am going by NFL expectations this year, not fantasy pts.
Second, I am looking at offense to run, tools to use and O-line.
Rodgers has a huge benefit of the fact that offense throws and throws alot, and will continue to do so.
Rivers is in the same boat. I am not a Matthews fan, nor Tolbert. I think with a really healthy Gates, and V.J. back, he will be huge this year.
Manning is back from a Neck injury. Add to that a very, very young O-line, with no camp to train with. He may not make a full season folks, you heard it here first.
Brees will be effected in that they plan to go back to Duece McCallister moad with Ingram. So less passing.
Brady - Bellicheck magic is fading, and I think they have holes especially at o-line that will kill them. But he is still Brady, in that offense.

that is why.
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That makes sense then, we're just each using a different standard to rank our QBs this season. And to your points I agree, stats wise Rivers could very well end up on top and ahead of Brady. My criteria was if you had to win one game who do you want at QB, and that's why I couldn't understand Rivers over Brady/Manning/Brees. So it's all clear as mud now :)
 
JScott said:
That makes sense then, we're just each using a different standard to rank our QBs this season. And to your points I agree, stats wise Rivers could very well end up on top and ahead of Brady. My criteria was if you had to win one game who do you want at QB, and that's why I couldn't understand Rivers over Brady/Manning/Brees. So it's all clear as mud now :)
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Okay, well lets go with that then.

if you had to win a game, and it was crucial. I would go first with Rodgers.

Why? Young, solid offense, and he did nothing this year but win when he absolutely had to. Period. Including his first Superbowl.
Then: Brees. Why? He wasn't wanted, played with chip on shoulder for new team and did what...yep win a superbowl. Then the team totally revamped the offense and had to go basically one dimensional, and he carried that team.
2A would then be Brady. The ONLY reason I am leery of Brady and have Brees over him is the injuries he is now working though. If he shows he is totally healthy, then I would put him over Brees then.
Then Manning, but just barely over Rivers. Why? Because Manning has shown in past he can choke in big games, as well as excel, but will throw others under the bus.
Rivers I think will get there eventually, when he does, Manning drops more.
 
Phicinfan said:
Okay, well lets go with that then.

if you had to win a game, and it was crucial. I would go first with Rodgers.

Why? Young, solid offense, and he did nothing this year but win when he absolutely had to. Period. Including his first Superbowl.
Then: Brees. Why? He wasn't wanted, played with chip on shoulder for new team and did what...yep win a superbowl. Then the team totally revamped the offense and had to go basically one dimensional, and he carried that team.
2A would then be Brady. The ONLY reason I am leery of Brady and have Brees over him is the injuries he is now working though. If he shows he is totally healthy, then I would put him over Brees then.
Then Manning, but just barely over Rivers. Why? Because Manning has shown in past he can choke in big games, as well as excel, but will throw others under the bus.
Rivers I think will get there eventually, when he does, Manning drops more.
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I agree with Rodgers and Brees then I tend to want to put Rivers third. The problem I have with that is he always throws a last game stinker, and that last game is kind of important. I used to have Manning listed above Brady, but warner impressed upon me what kind of year Brady had last year. That leaves it:
Rodgers
Brees
Brady
Manning
Rivers
 
I guess I'm not following the question correctly.

I read the question as "If you had to win one game...and it was crucial...What QB would you want"

Now...I don't see any stipulation that the quarterback I choose is married to his current offense.

I choose Manning hands down, no looking back.

I don't choose the Colts offense but Manning is the ONLY choice given an unspecified offensive arsenal.

The question is almost laughable, IMO.
 
cctekguy said:
I guess I'm not following the question correctly.

I read the question as "If you had to win one game...and it was crucial...What QB would you want"

Now...I don't see any stipulation that the quarterback I choose is married to his current offense.

I choose Manning hands down, no looking back.

I don't choose the Colts offense but Manning is the ONLY choice given an unspecified offensive arsenal.

The question is almost laughable, IMO.
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I factored in his age and second neck surgery.
 
cctekguy said:
I guess I'm not following the question correctly.

I read the question as "If you had to win one game...and it was crucial...What QB would you want"

Now...I don't see any stipulation that the quarterback I choose is married to his current offense.

I choose Manning hands down, no looking back.

I don't choose the Colts offense but Manning is the ONLY choice given an unspecified offensive arsenal.

The question is almost laughable, IMO.
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Why?
He has shown the ability to win the needed game, but also to choke the needed game as well.

I would feel much more confident with Brees, Rodgers or Brady.
 
JScott said:
Their NFL piers would say you are wrong. And with all due respect to your homerism Rodgers does not belong in the top 3 (yet).

If I need to win one game, I'm still taking Manning or Brady over any other QB.
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Piers runs a second rate tv show!


....as for Rodgers' peers in the NFL, it looks better for them if they mention or vote for the established canidates. That keeps them in the same category of mention of the guy they know is the heir apparent and makes them feel better about themselves. Rodgers is clearly on a level playing field with Manning and brady at this point in thier respective careers, and that really goes without question. Would guys like Ryan, Roeths, Cutler, or Romo come out and say that?? Prolly not because that means they wouldn't be considered in the same mix with him in regards to stature. Ask them next year. lol!
 
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Great discussion.....which as we have seen can be interpreted in many different ways. First off, throw out the fantasy angle, we are talking the best QB in the NFL, not the best number compiler. Two completely different things IMO. For me, I am not looking to just the past as I am trying to pick a QB right now. I also don't put a ton of weight on the if I had one game to win theory....why?? B/c the season is much longer than 1 game. What I would judge the current best QB in the NFL question on is if I could have any QB for THIS season, who would it be? I wanted to win THIS year, who would I select. Here is my list:

1. Manning - Still the best game manager IMO. Given equal talent around him, there's no other QB I'd give the ball to.
2. Rodgers - Sky is the limit and now has the success to go with all the potential. Just has the IT factor that is takes to be towards the top of my list.
3. Brady - Can't argue with his legacy. I think he has fallen back just a bit, but still one of the most reliable QB's game in and game out in the league.
4. Brees - I think there is a bigger drop off from the top 3 than most it seems. I like Brees a lot, but I do think he is a bit behind the top 3.
5. Rivers - Raw talent and play making abilities, but always has that combustible factor to him. Considered Matt Ryan here as well due to his cool and calm performances.
 
Miller said:
I also don't put a ton of weight on the if I had one game to win theory....why?? B/c the season is much longer than 1 game.
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It is kind of important in the discussion though. I have to consider rivers play in big games. Not big games to make the playoffs, but in key games during. He always seems to end his season the same way. The others have taken the next step. I have Rivers right where you do and the reason is because if I had to choose the guy to WIN ONE GAME it wouldn't be him. (over other 4)

I understand and agree with the overall premise of your post, but in Rivers' instance it is the only next step to move up. It is funny that we all have him above Big Ben who has already won two.
 
Does anyone know off hand when the players voted on the Top 100? I had assumed it was after the 2010 season but it would be interesting if the voting started say after the regular season but before the playoffs. If that's the case I assume they'd bump Rodgers up after the SB win. If the voting took place after the SB and Rodgers was still #11 (4th QB) then I think it's very telling compared to the fans views, that the players feel Rodgers is on the doorstep but not quite there yet.

IMO because NE and IND didn't make any noise in the playoffs last season people (as RC admitted to about Brady) are forgetting how good their seasons were last year.

And as Miller pointed out, no matter what your criteria is (one game or one season) you have to consider each QB with the same surrounding cast, not Brady with NE or Rodgers with GB. And even that's tough because the chemistry a QB has with their teammates and what each brings to the table makes them the QB they are.

All that being said, I still maintain (and the NFL players seem to agree) that Manning/Brady are still tied at the top and Rodgers is just a 1/2 step away from being in that company. As is Brees.
 
JScott said:
Does anyone know off hand when the players voted on the Top 100? I had assumed it was after the 2010 season but it would be interesting if the voting started say after the regular season but before the playoffs. If that's the case I assume they'd bump Rodgers up after the SB win. If the voting took place after the SB and Rodgers was still #11 (4th QB) then I think it's very telling compared to the fans views, that the players feel Rodgers is on the doorstep but not quite there yet.

IMO because NE and IND didn't make any noise in the playoffs last season people (as RC admitted to about Brady) are forgetting how good their seasons were last year.

And as Miller pointed out, no matter what your criteria is (one game or one season) you have to consider each QB with the same surrounding cast, not Brady with NE or Rodgers with GB. And even that's tough because the chemistry a QB has with their teammates and what each brings to the table makes them the QB they are.

All that being said, I still maintain (and the NFL players seem to agree) that Manning/Brady are still tied at the top and Rodgers is just a 1/2 step away from being in that company. As is Brees.
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It was something the NFL Network came up with so they could have something to fill in space. It was a good idea, and gave them some shows and response. I agree with you on those two being real good still, but do you understand my point that other guys who want to be in the converstation might be just a bit slow in giving another peer that recognition due to competitiveness? If you ask Peyton and Tom who the best are they would say "the other guy or myself". If you ask Brees he would likely say Peyton and Brady. If you ask Rodgers he would mention those three, but if you asked Roesthlisberger I bet he would just say Brady and Manning. That is the accepted established answer and keeps them feeling better about their ranking. It keeps another young riser "in check" so to say.
 
Remote Controller said:
It was something the NFL Network came up with so they could have something to fill in space. It was a good idea, and gave them some shows and response. I agree with you on those two being real good still, but do you understand my point that other guys who want to be in the converstation might be just a bit slow in giving another peer that recognition due to competitiveness? If you ask Peyton and Tom who the best are they would say "the other guy or myself". If you ask Brees he would likely say Peyton and Brady. If you ask Rodgers he would mention those three, but if you asked Roesthlisberger I bet he would just say Brady and Manning. That is the accepted established answer and keeps them feeling better about their ranking. It keeps another young riser "in check" so to say.
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Yep, completely valid point. These rankings obviously come with history (not just 2010), and Brady/Manning just have more of it (history) than Rodgers.
 
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