DearbornDolfan
Active Member
Not incredibly impressive, but damned if he didn't do his job today. I just wonder if the Bucs fans here are prepared to step up to the table and eat some crow pie.
How About Josh Freemen
- Thread starter DearbornDolfan
- Start date
Skedar120
Buccaneer Faithful
Guess I'll take first crack at an evaluation here.
First off: damn, it feels good to finally get a win. I'll be honest, I cried. It was glorious. :grin:
It also confirms for me that Green Bay can't win here, which is great for me considering two of my best friends are Packer fans.
Let's remember before anything that we had 2 D/ST touchdowns in this game, at key points as well. We also put up 6 sacks on Aaron Rodgers. Not out of the ordinary for the Pack, true, however you have to credit our secondary for finally stepping up and keeping the coverage tight. You could see Rodgers scanning and finding nothing, protection breaks down, sack. Also, 3 INTs. Looked more like the Bucs D of the early 2000s. (Tanard Jackson, we missed you.)
On to the offense. For the life of me, I don't understand why we don't go to the ground game more often. Caddy did his job, Ward found the endzone. But that's not the question here.
Josh Freeman. I will say his stock has gone up in my book. But when you sit at 0, its tough to go anywhere else. First stat to jump out at me: 14-31. 45% completions. I won't say I am surprised by this at all. Freeman came out of K-State with a career 59.1% completed. It's his obvious lack of touch. I remember watching him in training camp where he would spend an hour throwing dump off passes. It was again evident with his first pass. Tried to gun it to Caddy in the flats, not on target. Most of his incompletions were his fault. He put the ball in position to be swatted or even picked a few times, only 1 INT though. And when it wasn't there, it was too high.
Next thing I noticed was his decision making. This surprised me at times, mostly towards the end. First drive, on 3rd down, he slid 2 yards shy of the marker. That's poor awareness. Again, his decision making led to some close passes, and 1 INT. However, it got progressively better throughout the game. He trusted his O-Line, and when there really was nothing there, he scrambled. He showed great poise in the 4th quarter for the TDs to Winslow and Stroughter.
I was also impressed with his mobility. For a guy thats 6'6", 248 lb, he can move. Only took 1 sack the whole game. Again, credit the O-Line for most of it, but don't sell him short for being able to get away from trouble. Last thing I will credit to him is his chemistry with his receivers, and the team as a whole. He has a lot of trust in Winslow, and it looks like he has a growing trust in Stroughter and Stovall as well.
Having said all that, I still think that Josh Johnson is a better QB at this point in time. But where Freeman has him is in the intangibles. Nobody knew the name Josh Johnson until this season. Why? Nobody talked about him. Including the team. I believe that Gruden brought him in to groom him into the QB of the future, much like he did with Caddy. That went down the drain when Gruden was fired. New coach brings new personnel, new players, and a new vision. Everyone believes in Freeman, and Johnson is an afterthought, which is sad to me. So the team got what they wanted, what they believed in, and I think they were more willing to prove that. A leader that inspires but needs growth is almost always more appealing than a leader that is capable but can't inspire.
Final stats for anyone who didn't see the game: 14/31, 205 yds., 3 TD, 1 INT, 86.1 passer rating.
So in a much, much shorter version: I saw some things I liked, but saw more of what I expected. I hope that I am dead wrong about this guy and he can be the QB that the team needs, but for now, I'm not convinced. You said it well, DD:
Hats off to you, Freeman. Please prove me wrong.
P.S.: Orange uniforms are hideous. But you gotta admit, ol' Buccaneer Bruce looks damn sexy.
First off: damn, it feels good to finally get a win. I'll be honest, I cried. It was glorious. :grin:
It also confirms for me that Green Bay can't win here, which is great for me considering two of my best friends are Packer fans.
Let's remember before anything that we had 2 D/ST touchdowns in this game, at key points as well. We also put up 6 sacks on Aaron Rodgers. Not out of the ordinary for the Pack, true, however you have to credit our secondary for finally stepping up and keeping the coverage tight. You could see Rodgers scanning and finding nothing, protection breaks down, sack. Also, 3 INTs. Looked more like the Bucs D of the early 2000s. (Tanard Jackson, we missed you.)
On to the offense. For the life of me, I don't understand why we don't go to the ground game more often. Caddy did his job, Ward found the endzone. But that's not the question here.
Josh Freeman. I will say his stock has gone up in my book. But when you sit at 0, its tough to go anywhere else. First stat to jump out at me: 14-31. 45% completions. I won't say I am surprised by this at all. Freeman came out of K-State with a career 59.1% completed. It's his obvious lack of touch. I remember watching him in training camp where he would spend an hour throwing dump off passes. It was again evident with his first pass. Tried to gun it to Caddy in the flats, not on target. Most of his incompletions were his fault. He put the ball in position to be swatted or even picked a few times, only 1 INT though. And when it wasn't there, it was too high.
Next thing I noticed was his decision making. This surprised me at times, mostly towards the end. First drive, on 3rd down, he slid 2 yards shy of the marker. That's poor awareness. Again, his decision making led to some close passes, and 1 INT. However, it got progressively better throughout the game. He trusted his O-Line, and when there really was nothing there, he scrambled. He showed great poise in the 4th quarter for the TDs to Winslow and Stroughter.
I was also impressed with his mobility. For a guy thats 6'6", 248 lb, he can move. Only took 1 sack the whole game. Again, credit the O-Line for most of it, but don't sell him short for being able to get away from trouble. Last thing I will credit to him is his chemistry with his receivers, and the team as a whole. He has a lot of trust in Winslow, and it looks like he has a growing trust in Stroughter and Stovall as well.
Having said all that, I still think that Josh Johnson is a better QB at this point in time. But where Freeman has him is in the intangibles. Nobody knew the name Josh Johnson until this season. Why? Nobody talked about him. Including the team. I believe that Gruden brought him in to groom him into the QB of the future, much like he did with Caddy. That went down the drain when Gruden was fired. New coach brings new personnel, new players, and a new vision. Everyone believes in Freeman, and Johnson is an afterthought, which is sad to me. So the team got what they wanted, what they believed in, and I think they were more willing to prove that. A leader that inspires but needs growth is almost always more appealing than a leader that is capable but can't inspire.
Final stats for anyone who didn't see the game: 14/31, 205 yds., 3 TD, 1 INT, 86.1 passer rating.
So in a much, much shorter version: I saw some things I liked, but saw more of what I expected. I hope that I am dead wrong about this guy and he can be the QB that the team needs, but for now, I'm not convinced. You said it well, DD:
DearbornDolfan said:
Hats off to you, Freeman. Please prove me wrong.
P.S.: Orange uniforms are hideous. But you gotta admit, ol' Buccaneer Bruce looks damn sexy.
storminn0rm
Brewmaster
P.S.: Orange uniforms are hideous. But you gotta admit, ol' Buccaneer Bruce looks damn sexy.
He's winking at us
RZR
Sun-kissed & restless
On the day where Tampa Bay honors our only Hall of Fame contribution, Lee Roy Selmon, its a screaming relief to see that we can still play the game of football better than the local POP Warner team. Literally.
Crow pie.... not just yet. But I will give Freeman credit where it's due.
I couldn't agree with Skedar more about his evaluation of Freeman AND more importantly the fierce force of our defensive ability. Talib, Barber, Jackson, etc, thank you for finally thinking like a team out there.
However, to add to the above I think its worth mentioning that Josh Johnson was 9/26 in his game against the Pats. If you didn't watch the game you might think "Josh sucks" but the WR's didn't do their jobs and catch easy passes. Yesterday, they stayed alert at the wheel and it paid off. They helped to make Freeman look good; not so much for JJ unfortunately. But this is partly because Freeman's been clocking more training camp and practice time then JJ. Its to be expected that the WR's are more in sync with Freeman.
Both Johnson and Freeman watched Luke and Lefty battle, but then Freeman benefited from watching Johnson be a rookie at the helm of an NFL team. Learning from JJ's mistakes and hearing the criticism he received helped him prepare mentally. Naturally being on the field learning these things first hand would have its benefits too, but Freeman's been slow broiled instead of pan seared and skewered. Because of this Freeman had no reason to royally suck during his NFL debut. I expected a level of play that would make him shimmer in the lights and look good. Now that the pressure is really on his shoulders, we'll see how he handles the pressure.
Maybe it was the team channeling the momentum of the 1979 Bucs through their orange and cream uniforms, but my household (all Bucs fans) thought Freeman looked quite fitting in the creamsicle. If Freeman can continue to drive this train through a few more winning stations than I'll give him his due props.
Crow pie.... not just yet. But I will give Freeman credit where it's due.
I couldn't agree with Skedar more about his evaluation of Freeman AND more importantly the fierce force of our defensive ability. Talib, Barber, Jackson, etc, thank you for finally thinking like a team out there.
However, to add to the above I think its worth mentioning that Josh Johnson was 9/26 in his game against the Pats. If you didn't watch the game you might think "Josh sucks" but the WR's didn't do their jobs and catch easy passes. Yesterday, they stayed alert at the wheel and it paid off. They helped to make Freeman look good; not so much for JJ unfortunately. But this is partly because Freeman's been clocking more training camp and practice time then JJ. Its to be expected that the WR's are more in sync with Freeman.
Both Johnson and Freeman watched Luke and Lefty battle, but then Freeman benefited from watching Johnson be a rookie at the helm of an NFL team. Learning from JJ's mistakes and hearing the criticism he received helped him prepare mentally. Naturally being on the field learning these things first hand would have its benefits too, but Freeman's been slow broiled instead of pan seared and skewered. Because of this Freeman had no reason to royally suck during his NFL debut. I expected a level of play that would make him shimmer in the lights and look good. Now that the pressure is really on his shoulders, we'll see how he handles the pressure.
Maybe it was the team channeling the momentum of the 1979 Bucs through their orange and cream uniforms, but my household (all Bucs fans) thought Freeman looked quite fitting in the creamsicle. If Freeman can continue to drive this train through a few more winning stations than I'll give him his due props.
Runnik's Hambones
Active Member
Must agree with much that was said already. Watched the game I had two issues with Freeman and I'm happy to say that in the press conference after the game he addressed both of them. One was his completion percentage, that clearly needs to rise. The second was the fumbled snaps but he will work on that.
Like you both said above, Josh Johnson is a good QB that had NO help from the Bucs offense. He hit players in the hands all game long and they simply dropped the ball. We saw Michael Clayton actually play for Freeman on Sunday.
Before we get too excited about his stats, just like Eric said, and I pointed this out right at the end of the game on Sunday: All of Freeman's TDs came off of wonderful field position that the Bucs defense and Special teams afforded him. 2 of the 3 INTs were brought well into GB field position so he was working with a short field (the other INT was returned for a TD), and the final TD that Freeman had was also do to wonderful field position, after a great KO Return by Clifton Smith. And you cannot forget the other TD the Bucs had from a blocked punt.
I've said this all year and I'll stick to it: The Bucs play well on Defense and Special Teams, and we will win football games. The reason we lost all of those other games was because of no turnovers and poor field position.
Like you both said above, Josh Johnson is a good QB that had NO help from the Bucs offense. He hit players in the hands all game long and they simply dropped the ball. We saw Michael Clayton actually play for Freeman on Sunday.
Before we get too excited about his stats, just like Eric said, and I pointed this out right at the end of the game on Sunday: All of Freeman's TDs came off of wonderful field position that the Bucs defense and Special teams afforded him. 2 of the 3 INTs were brought well into GB field position so he was working with a short field (the other INT was returned for a TD), and the final TD that Freeman had was also do to wonderful field position, after a great KO Return by Clifton Smith. And you cannot forget the other TD the Bucs had from a blocked punt.
I've said this all year and I'll stick to it: The Bucs play well on Defense and Special Teams, and we will win football games. The reason we lost all of those other games was because of no turnovers and poor field position.