Helmet to helmet hits....by the Steelers....when is enough, enough??

[Mr. Hack]

I understand we have to watch out for the safety of the players, but he did what he had to do, and I dont feel he could have made the play any differently.

 

[Orgazmo]

Clark's technique looked really odd, and perhaps wrong. But he did not leave his feet to missile head first into McGahee.

After watching Sweed on that clip, the technique wasn't great probably because he's a rookie, but it didn't look dirty. The Raven just had the misfortune of being considerably smaller than Sweed.

 

[Miller]

who said anything about 90%? Just don't launch yourself at another players head....you can go 100% and not do this!

We all see it differently I guess, I just don't see a place in the game for this, and fear that someone is going to be tragically hurt before this gets the negative attention I feel it deserves.

 

[The Ram]

who said anything about 90%? Just don't launch yourself at another players head....you can go 100% and not do this!

We all see it differently I guess, I just don't see a place in the game for this, and fear that someone is going to be tragically hurt before this gets the negative attention I feel it deserves.

I don't see a problem with him launching himself in order to place a shot at the chest of McGahee as opposed to keeping his feet and trying to hit Willis at the waist. If he was head hunting that would be one thing. Delivering big hits to the chest isn't something I'm going to get all :taz: over.

 

[Miller]

guess that's where we'll have to agree to disagree, you think he launched himself at his chest, I see the initial vicious collision at the helmet level, which is head hunting....

Think we agree on the base of what is over the line, just disagree on if this fits that definition.

Good discussion though. Will say one thing, Steelers were without a doubt the best team yesterday, and this doesn't take a thing away from that.

 

[Arctic Dawgs]

I don't care how you try and justify it Ram, That Sweed block was a dirty, malicious hit meant to inflict as much pain/injury as possible.

You are sounding like the Broncos fans of days gone by defending the oline cut blocking into defensive players knees

 

[JScott]

Dude the technique used by the Steelers week in and week out is the same technique taught in high school football: Put your head across the body of the ball carrier and drive through with your shoulder. The Steelers defenders and receivers both are executing fundamental football.

I agree with this. The one thing I will agree with Miller about is in both cases the players were looking down at impact, and yes that's how serious injuries occur. While putting your head across the body of the person and driving with your should IS what's taught early, you're also taught to see what you're tackling (head up).

There was helment to helment contact on both plays, but the difference in a "helmet to helmet" penalty (which these weren't) is when a player leads with his helmet first, like a spear.

Also, neither Clark nor Sweed was flying through the air, they drove from their feet into the player.

 

[Remote Controller]

:headscratch:

 

[JScott]

Again, not saying this is with malicious intent, or that they are "dirty", but they sure the hell are illegal and dangerous as hell.

One thing I remember Simms (I think) saying after the Clark hit is that helmet-to-helmet is not illegal when tackling an open field runner... which surprised me. I know it's mostly called when safeties/corners are launching themselving into WRs at the point of the reception, but didn't realize it was not the same for open field runners dunno:

 

[Hawks Eye]

And I think the pictures say more than I ever could:
YouTube - Steelers Ravens Big Hits Limas Sweed jacks up Corey Ivy & Ryan Clark lights up Willis McGahee

I've looked at this clip and others, from multiple angles, and I have to say that I stand by my original conclusion that Clark led with his shoulder. After Clark had already sprung into the hit, McGahee lowered HIS head into Clark's helmet. I mean, I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I think this is McGahee's fault, not Clark's.

 

[Hawks Eye]

Bart Scott hit Willie Parker on a reception and Scott's crown of his helmet hit Parker right in the facemask. That was a pretty vicious hit, but Parker held onto the ball. I thought that was extremely impressive on his part.

I saw this, too, duk, and I thought that it was a bad hit at the time. But, since Parker got up afterwards, no one said anything about THAT being a bad hit.

 

[The Ram]

I don't care how you try and justify it Ram, That Sweed block was a dirty, malicious hit meant to inflict as much pain/injury as possible.

You are sounding like the Broncos fans of days gone by defending the oline cut blocking into defensive players knees

Ow bs. It was meant to be a big hit, which it was. If Sweed ever wanted to cause injury he could have dove at the dude's knees. He wasn't looking and Sweed could have shredded both of the guy's knees if he wanted to cause injury. It was meant to be a big hit and an attempt to get his guy a few yards further, plain and simple.

 

[Hawks Eye]

I watched the Sweed hit in slow motion and saw the Clark hit in real time and then again in slow motion. The Clark hit was without question NOT a helmet to helmet hit. Clark clearly (and thanks for the link Miller) put his head across the body of McGahee and drove through the hit while leaving his feet. Not illegal and nothing dirty about the hit. I am sad that Willis was hurt badly but there isn't anything that proves ill will and the hit itself wasn't dirty. Just hard.

The Sweed hit I didn't see in real time but again watched it in slow motion several times. Sweed admitted to being pissed from a previous dropped pass and let out his frustration on a hard block. I don's see any difference between that hit and any number of hits Ray Lewis puts on people multiple times a game. He also put his helmet across the body of the defender and layed into him. Another tough hit but not a helmet to helmet. If you look closely at the replay he used his shoulder to deliver the blow. Helmet contact was incidental.

I agree with you that Clark's hit was fine, but I have to disagree about Sweed's hit. From the replays, I can see that he lowers his head and drives WITH his head. There's nothing wrong with a hard block/hit (although anti-Steelers will always complain about them), but what Sweed did WAS dirty. I'm all for letting your frustration drive you on the field, but not when you let it do so in a way that can so easily hurt someone.

 

[Arctic Dawgs]

Ow bs. It was meant to be a big hit, which it was. If Sweed ever wanted to cause injury he could have dove at the dude's knees. He wasn't looking and Sweed could have shredded both of the guy's knees if he wanted to cause injury. It was meant to be a big hit and an attempt to get his guy a few yards further, plain and simple.

I think broken necks and mushed brains are considered injuries now. Maybe not back in the day, but I'm pretty sure they are now

 

[Hawks Eye]

I think broken necks and mushed brains are considered injuries now. Maybe not back in the day, but I'm pretty sure they are now

Pfft... wuss.

 

[Miller]

I agree with this. The one thing I will agree with Miller about is in both cases the players were looking down at impact, and yes that's how serious injuries occur. While putting your head across the body of the person and driving with your should IS what's taught early, you're also taught to see what you're tackling (head up).

There was helment to helment contact on both plays, but the difference in a "helmet to helmet" penalty (which these weren't) is when a player leads with his helmet first, like a spear.

Also, neither Clark nor Sweed was flying through the air, they drove from their feet into the player.

And just to be clear here, I agree with what Ram is saying "should" be taught.....I just do not agree that is the technique used in either case.

 

[Miller]

Bart Scott hit Willie Parker on a reception and Scott's crown of his helmet hit Parker right in the facemask. That was a pretty vicious hit, but Parker held onto the ball. I thought that was extremely impressive on his part.

Don't remember seeing it....but also don't condone it based on what was stated here.....definatly don't put i past Bart Scott:cunning:

 

[Da Bomb]

miller is just jealous that some of the other teams know how to tackle.

 

[Mike]

Didn't watch this, but going by the National radio broadcast (westwood one), the said that hit that hurt Willis looked unintentional, that they both unfortunately moved the same direction when trying to avoid the dangerous contact.

Without seeing the game for myself yet (hope it is replayed), I have no dog in this fight.

I will say though, that I have a hard time sympathizing with any Ravens players on this. When you put bounties on players, you can expect that the opposing team is going to hit you just a little harder when they meet up.

This is a league wide problem though, and as Jscott said, Brian Dawkins is the worst of them all. I would have suspended that jerkoff on many occasions throughout his career.

 

[Miller]

miller is just jealous that some of the other teams know how to tackle.

wow, took till page 3 to get a :jerkoff: comment....figured it would have came much sooner....