Another letter from Goodell to us fans

[mudloggerone]

How many times has your employer built a new drilling rig and then asked YOU to take a salary/benifits cut to pay for it Mud?

It happens entirely too often in the oilfield Sarge. I've received paycuts when the industry slowed down and I've received them when the company over spent. Every man or woman working in the oilfield has had their pay cut at one time or another, I can remember 3. When I owned my own mudlogging company I had to tell one of my employees that was due a raise that he'd have to consider it a raise that I wasn't cutting his pay. At that time my daily charges had dropped by a solid 40%.

Sorry but the players get little sympathy from me. They are mostly over paid, often under educated in spite of football degrees, and in too many cases adult thugs. A dangerous job they have? Sure it is but not nearly as dangerous as many in the oilfield or mining or police work and the list could go on and on. They are spoiled Sarge and are a greedy bunch with some exceptions of course.

 

[Sgt John]

No. Im not talking about pay cuts because of a work shortage. The NFL is a monster money maker. You are telling me that you, either as the owner or employee of an extremely profitable company, has constructed a newer/bigger facility or equipment, and then told your employees they would have to take a paycut for you to pay for it?

I doubt that.

 

[Sgt John]

Happens all the time. I work for a big bank that is cleaning up right now and we just had a "pay plan adjustment". Plan plan changes are seldom for the best, but you roll with it, look at the areas you can make more money in to compensate for the areas you make less in. If you don't like it, you go work somewhere else if you are in demand.

However, unlike most of us in the working world, the players have the ability to negotiate for better terms rather than just accepting what the corporation rolls out. Get your asses back to the negotiation table and hammer this out and stop trying to make the public feel sorry for you as you pretend to actually care about the fans that pay your salaries..............

You need to pick a side. In the first paragraph you seem to say you support ownership and the players should just roll over and take it or go work for another league.

In the second, you are saying they have the ability to negotiate, so they should do what they are doing now and get the best deal for their services they can.

 

[Sgt John]

Pro football players have choices:

1) Pick another profession. They have access to a free college education. Use it and take another direction. Most players aren't crippled coming out of college, so ignore the big money of pro football and think long term if you don't want the risk/reward of the NFL.

You cant even begin to tell me if you had the ability to go play for the 49ers you wouldnt jump at, and you wouldnt expect to be compensated for your services.

2) Spend and invest your money wisely and play 5-6 years in the NFL and retire happy and healthy (well healthier than playing 10 years). Most players who are good enough to play 5-6 years will pull down an average of 2 million during that period. After taxes, that's 5-6 million net income. Not bad for someone who's 26 and should have a college education. John Frank was a TE for the Niners in the late 80's. He walked away from a nice contract extension and retired to become a doctor. If you don't want to increase your risk of long term injury, shorten your career. Of course, when a player walks away from a great career like Barry Sanders, happy and healthy, he's called a quitter by many.

The average career of an NFL player is what? 3 years? For every Frank Gore there are 5 guys who toil at the vet minimum or on the practice squad salary trying to live the dream. Those guys are high quality athletes who have more physical talent and dedication than most of us lazy fat americans ever will. They are at the pinnacle of their sport, and the deserve fair and just compensation. By your own admission you seem to have a diffcult and mentally taxing career, but when is the last time 80,000 people filled up a stadium to watch you do your job?

There was an article in the local paper the other day about Danny Bunz, who used to play LB for the Niners. He was talking about how he is concerned because his short term memory is bad and getting worse. He wanted to play a couple more years, but his wife essentially made him retire because she didn't want him to get screwed up any worse. She's a dentist and he is now a teacher. Great story. It was aimed at how Bunz supported the NFLPA and felt the players needed a bigger chunk of the pie, but to me, it told a different story of planning ahead and not thinking that your 10 year career in the NFL will be the only career you have. Maybe if more players thought ahead and made good choices, they could live as normal members of society after their careers like Bunz is doing.

Anyway, I digress. Nobody is forced to play in the NFL. Players play because they love the game and the money is great compared to a majority of those in the working world. The risk is obvious. The NFL IMO is doing a lot to make the game safer, such as restricting hits on defenseless players etc. But you still have players like James Harrison who bitch every time he is fined for a cheap shot, yet express concern about player safety. Amazing group of guys........

This is a nice story but all it does it make the point about the players deserving a fair share. Sure he has a second career, but the man was a good player and deserves real retirement and health benifits from the league. Guys like him shouldnt have to take less so Jerry Jones can line his pockets or put a TV the size of the international space station in his stadium.

 

[efactor]

You need to pick a side. In the first paragraph you seem to say you support ownership and the players should just roll over and take it or go work for another league.

In the second, you are saying they have the ability to negotiate, so they should do what they are doing now and get the best deal for their services they can.

I have picked a side. They need to negotiate, not walk away like a bunch of spoiled children. However, if that is their idea of negotiation, then they need to find better representation.

You act as if the players are being forced to play football for peanuts. "Roll over and take it"? They got compromises offered to them. They can get additional compromises if they go back to the negotiating table. Simple.

 

[mudloggerone]

No. Im not talking about pay cuts because of a work shortage. The NFL is a monster money maker. You are telling me that you, either as the owner or employee of an extremely profitable company, has constructed a newer/bigger facility or equipment, and then told your employees they would have to take a paycut for you to pay for it?

I doubt that.

It truely happened that way when the company I started with built a new million dollar office complex and then realized they'd over spent. We lost $20 a day (my smallest actual paycut, our company cars, and paid vacations over the course of 1 1/2 years. To be honest the first cut was in salary and was a direct result of the over spending the others came as the oilfield hit a decline which turned out to eventually wreck the former multi million dollar company. It was fun as they say while it lasted though. I once had enough senority that I drew 84 hours a week even if I didn't leave the house.

 

[efactor]

You cant even begin to tell me if you had the ability to go play for the 49ers you wouldnt jump at, and you wouldnt expect to be compensated for your services.



The average career of an NFL player is what? 3 years? For every Frank Gore there are 5 guys who toil at the vet minimum or on the practice squad salary trying to live the dream. Those guys are high quality athletes who have more physical talent and dedication than most of us lazy fat americans ever will. They are at the pinnacle of their sport, and the deserve fair and just compensation. By your own admission you seem to have a diffcult and mentally taxing career, but when is the last time 80,000 people filled up a stadium to watch you do your job?




This is a nice story but all it does it make the point about the players deserving a fair share. Sure he has a second career, but the man was a good player and deserves real retirement and health benifits from the league. Guys like him shouldnt have to take less so Jerry Jones can line his pockets or put a TV the size of the international space station in his stadium.

1) If I had the talent and chose to play in the NFL, I would be compensated. All players are compensated and compensated well. They take risks, which is why they are compensated so well. My point is that if they don't want to take those risks, take advantage of the education offered to them and get into another field that doesn't have the economic upside or the glamour associated with playing professional sports.

2) Barring injury, if your career only lasts three years, you were not an elite player. Enjoy the time you had and hopefully, you saved some of your money. Now, it's time to move on and work in another field. You don't deserve a life of leisure because you played three years in the NFL. Also, I wasn't lining up as a fan to see that guy do his job. I wanted to see the Frank Gores of the world. Just like going to see a movie. Stars get paid more. Also, I don't think a majority of Americans are fat and lazy. Most work pretty hard to stay above water right now, which is why I think the players are getting little sympathy right now. As far as 80K people not lining up to watch me work. Their loss.

3) Jerry Jones was a successful business person before football. He was also the first owner to see the benefit of corporate sponsorship. If he want's to build a monument to his legacy, fine by me. I don't see this as taking anything away from the players. They get their share regardless of how Jones spends his money. They just want a bigger share, and need to get back to the negotiating table to come to a compromise.

 

[Sgt John]

It truely happened that way when the company I started with built a new million dollar office complex and then realized they'd over spent. We lost $20 a day (my smallest actual paycut, our company cars, and paid vacations over the course of 1 1/2 years. To be honest the first cut was in salary and was a direct result of the over spending the others came as the oilfield hit a decline which turned out to eventually wreck the former multi million dollar company. It was fun as they say while it lasted though. I once had enough senority that I drew 84 hours a week even if I didn't leave the house.

I get what you are saying Mud, but it still doesnt compare. The NFL is not over spent. They are an extremely rich organization.

 

[Sgt John]

I have picked a side. They need to negotiate, not walk away like a bunch of spoiled children. However, if that is their idea of negotiation, then they need to find better representation.

You act as if the players are being forced to play football for peanuts. "Roll over and take it"? They got compromises offered to them. They can get additional compromises if they go back to the negotiating table. Simple.

The NFL never had intentions of making a deal.

No, the players are not being forced to play for peanuts, but they arent making the owners peanuts either. They got unrealistic compromises offered to them.

This is very simple. Open up your books and prove you are losing money. If the owners were truly losing money they would have done this by now.

 

[Sgt John]

1) If I had the talent and chose to play in the NFL, I would be compensated. All players are compensated and compensated well. They take risks, which is why they are compensated so well. My point is that if they don't want to take those risks, take advantage of the education offered to them and get into another field that doesn't have the economic upside or the glamour associated with playing professional sports.

So what you are saying is if dont like the risk they should take their ball and go home, not make any money at all, and leave the game they love to someone else? I dont see any player saying they dont want to play, they want fair and just compensation commensurate with the risks and their talent level within their industry.

2) Barring injury, if your career only lasts three years, you were not an elite player. Enjoy the time you had and hopefully, you saved some of your money. Now, it's time to move on and work in another field. You don't deserve a life of leisure because you played three years in the NFL. Also, I wasn't lining up as a fan to see that guy do his job. I wanted to see the Frank Gores of the world. Just like going to see a movie. Stars get paid more. Also, I don't think a majority of Americans are fat and lazy. Most work pretty hard to stay above water right now, which is why I think the players are getting little sympathy right now. As far as 80K people not lining up to watch me work. Their loss.

3 years is about the average. Guys get injured all the time. I dont see any former player saying he deserves a life of leisure because he played in the NFL, but they do deserve retirement and health benifits if they become vested, just like everyone else in the world. Look at MJD right now. The guy cant get health insurance from any provider in this country because of what he does for a living. So its fair for the owners to get more unnecessary money off the players at the expense of their future benifits?

America is a fat lazy country in general E. Take a look around (and Im not without sin in some areas myself)

As far as paying to see Frank Gore, without the "little guys" your star cant exactly do his job......

3) Jerry Jones was a successful business person before football. He was also the first owner to see the benefit of corporate sponsorship. If he want's to build a monument to his legacy, fine by me. I don't see this as taking anything away from the players. They get their share regardless of how Jones spends his money. They just want a bigger share, and need to get back to the negotiating table to come to a compromise.

What Jerry Jones did before football is irrelevant. One of the owners arguments is they are broke from making stadium improvements and they need to take money from the player to cover their losses, which gets back to the books they wont show for the past 10 years.

The players appeared to be just fine with the last CBA. The owners wanted out take money.

 

[efactor]

The NFL never had intentions of making a deal.

I think it's the other way around. The players had no intention of making a deal. They walked away from the table when they didn't get their way. Owners offered some pretty big compromises, and there are more compromises available with the proper negotiating tactics.

DeMaurice is out of his league. The NLFPA needs a negotiator, not a litigator.............

 

[efactor]

So what you are saying is if dont like the risk they should take their ball and go home, not make any money at all, and leave the game they love to someone else? I dont see any player saying they dont want to play, they want fair and just compensation commensurate with the risks and their talent level within their industry.



3 years is about the average. Guys get injured all the time. I dont see any former player saying he deserves a life of leisure because he played in the NFL, but they do deserve retirement and health benifits if they become vested, just like everyone else in the world. Look at MJD right now. The guy cant get health insurance from any provider in this country because of what he does for a living. So its fair for the owners to get more unnecessary money off the players at the expense of their future benifits?

America is a fat lazy country in general E. Take a look around (and Im not without sin in some areas myself)

As far as paying to see Frank Gore, without the "little guys" your star cant exactly do his job......




What Jerry Jones did before football is irrelevant. One of the owners arguments is they are broke from making stadium improvements and they need to take money from the player to cover their losses, which gets back to the books they wont show for the past 10 years.

The players appeared to be just fine with the last CBA. The owners wanted out take money.

1) They are getting fair and just compensation. The stars are making huge money. Solid vets are making big money in the range of 2-5 million a year and the worst players are making 300K. Unproven rookies are making huge money, which is a big part of the problem. Salaries are based on the players ability (agent) to negotiate a contract. Capitalism at it's finest on display.

2) Well, MJD can probably afford to pay for his own health benefits based on his income. Don't know specifics of what is available to the players, but some type of health care should be in place. Also, the guys blocking for Frank Gore are not underpaid. Davis and Iupati got big rookie contracts. Staley just signed a big money extension and Baas and Rachel are in the million plus a year club as well. Not exactly peanuts.

3) It is relevant what Jones did prior to football. He earned his money to buy a team and he took the risk that he could fail in his new venture. He also made the league a ton of money by pioneering corporate sponsorship and a portion of that money has filtered down to the players. You cannot pay millions if you aren't making millions. Owners deserve a bigger share of the profits based on the risk they take. Players are entitled to the best deal they can get through negotiation. But, currently, they aren't negotiating. They are sitting on the sidelines, expecting the owners to hand them the deal they want. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way in the real world. Every successful company watches what they spend and the NFL is no different. I worked for a major mortgage company during their good times and I was in a position for a time where I got a good look at how much money they wasted and it was easy to see why this company came crashing down. Concessions are earned by negotiation. They are not handed over. Players need to get back to the table.

 

[Sgt John]

Good Points made all around, and we will never agree either (but Im not going to a federal mediator with you).

 

[Phicinfan]

Having read all, here is my personal view.

I agree both are at fault. Both are greedy, and this stinks of I am taking my ball and going home. That said....

Owners have a very tough situation. Soon, if not now, the only way to get a new stadium, or stadium upgrades will be from their own pocket. Also, they have hit their limit of ticket pricing. Any higher, and they risk full stadiums, which risks tv coverage in the area, which risks further fan support. It is a long slippery slope.

I liken this greatly to what has happened in Wisconsin and the changes in collective bargaining for unions. I also question if that doesn't effect the Packers? Still, the union has to make concessions. For the good of the game, just as other unions in the last few years has had to to keep business growing. Facts are facts - Football is a huge industry now. That will change, economies are cyclical, and you can't change that. It will come very soon to the point where folks simply can't, or won't pay to see a football game. Owners need a way to defer costs and keep fans in the seats. So they need more of the pie.

With that though, they need to continue to offer what they did in their last offer, that is take better care of the retired players and really, really spend money to research how to better protect against injury especially to the head. Owners then need to eat that cost to keep players more healthy when they play. It allows for the physical game....and longer careers.

just my $0.02