Big Ten vs Pac 10 Pro's

[Kingdome]

Quick question, who are the top 10 Big Ten alums currently in the NFL? Brady, Brees, Hutchinson, J. Thomas, D. Clark...... ?

 

[Miller]

Quick question, who are the top 10 Big Ten alums currently in the NFL? Brady, Brees, Hutchinson, J. Thomas, D. Clark...... ?

Tell me you have more football sense than that.....please.....

Are you seriously trying to question the talent that the Big 10 stocks the league with?

 

[Miller]

Here are members of this year's AP all Pro team from both conferences:
Big 10 (6): Dallas Clark, Joe Thomas, Steve Hutchinson, Nick Mangold, Charles Woodson (Defensive Player of the Year), Nick Kaeding
Pac 10 (0): ummm :biglaugh: yeah....didn't know it would be like this, but yeah, no one!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txallproteam&prov=st&type=lgns
And that doesn't include SB MVP Brees, 3 time SB champ Brady, first ballot HOFer Orlando Pace......I could go on, but I think the point is made though i'm sure you'll dig up some 1986 All Pro team to try to make a point

 

[Miller]

2009 All-Pro's, 1st and 2nd teams on AP, SN, and PFWA

Big 10 (12): Drew Brees, Dallas Clark, Joe Thomas, Jake Long, Steve Hutchinson, Kris Dielman, Nick Mangold, LaMarr Woodley, David Harris, Charles Woodson, Leon Hall, Nate Kaeding (ST)

Pac-10 (7): Steven Jackson, Maurice Jones-Drew, Haloti Ngata, Brian Cushing, Nnamdi Asomugha, Jairus Byrd, DeSean Jackson (ST)
**Thank god for 2nd teamers, only 1 was a first team on any list (Ngata)...

2008 All-Pro's, 1st and 2nd teams on AP, SN, and PFWA

Big 10 (7): Drew Brees, David Diehl, Joe Thomas, Steve Hutchinson, Kris Dielman, Charles Woodson, Antoine Winfield

Pac-10 (7): Tony Gonzalez, Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, Nnamdi Asomugha, Troy Polamalu, Reggie Bush (ST's), Brendon Ayanbadejo (ST)

So in 2008, if you include the STers you get a tie, without them, we have 7 to your 5.

2007 All-Pro's, 1st and 2nd teams on AP, SN, and PFWA

Big 10 (8): Tom Brady, Braylon Edwards, Matt Light, Flozell Adams, Steve Hutchinson, Aaron Kempman, Mike Vrabel, Bob Sanders,

Pac 10 (5): Tony Gonzalez, Lofa Tatupu, Nick Barnett, Marcus Trufant, Troy Polamalu,

Total last 3 years:
Big 10: 27
Pac10: 19

Sure you want to continue down that road

 

[Kingdome]

2008 All-Pro's, 1st and 2nd teams on AP, SN, and PFWA

It is 2010, not 2008. How about a list of the top 10 (or 15, whatever) Big Ten players currently in the NFL. You can make the Pac-10 list too if you want.

edit: Heck, do an all decade team if you want.

 

[Miller]

umm, I just gave you the last 3 years of All Pro Teams...think the numbers speak for themselves there.

Total last 3 years:
Big 10: 27
Pac10: 19

​

You want al all pro team, just look at the 27 all-pro's in the last couple years.

 

[Kingdome]

On another tangent...

All-time NFL greats

All-Time NFL career passing TD leaders

5. John Elway (STAN)
6. Warren Moon (WASH)
12. Dan Fouts (ORE)
13. Drew Bledsoe (WSU)
17. Len Dawson (PUR)
21. Tom Brady (MICH)
23. John Brodie (STAN)
28. Jim Everett (PUR)
29. Drew Brees (PUR)
38. Kerry Collins (PSU)
38. Bob Greise (PUR)
41. Craig Morton (CAL)
42. Mark Brunell (WASH)
47. Otto Graham (NW)
49. Norm Van Brocklin (ORE)
52. Chris Chandler (WASH)
55. Troy Aikman (UCLA)
56. Jim Plunkett (STAN)
59. Trent Green (IND)
60. Jake Plummer (ASU)
60. Earl Morrall (MSU)
65. Steve Bartkowski (CAL)
66. Danny White (ASU)
67. Jeff George (ILL)
70. Billy Kilmer (UCLA)
83. Jim Harbaugh (MICH)
84. Carson Palmer (USC)
93. Chris Miller (ORE)
96. Milt Plum (PSU)
99. Brian Greise (MICH)
100. Frankie Albert (STAN)
100. Mark Rypien (WSU)

More later...

 

[Kingdome]

umm, I just gave you the last 3 years of All Pro Teams...think the numbers speak for themselves there.

Total last 3 years:
Big 10: 27
Pac10: 19

​

You want al all pro team, just look at the 27 all-pro's in the last couple years.

For you to take my bait, I need names!

 

[Miller]

For you to take my bait, I need names!

then read.....they are put above side by side.....it's not too hard to read.....post #34.....

 

[Miller]

On another tangent...

All-time NFL greats

All-Time NFL career passing TD leaders

5. John Elway (STAN)
6. Warren Moon (WASH)
12. Dan Fouts (ORE)
13. Drew Bledsoe (WSU)
17. Len Dawson (PUR)
21. Tom Brady (MICH)
23. John Brodie (STAN)
28. Jim Everett (PUR)
29. Drew Brees (PUR)
38. Kerry Collins (PSU)
38. Bob Greise (PUR)
41. Craig Morton (CAL)
42. Mark Brunell (WASH)
47. Otto Graham (NW)
49. Norm Van Brocklin (ORE)
52. Chris Chandler (WASH)
55. Troy Aikman (UCLA)
56. Jim Plunkett (STAN)
59. Trent Green (IND)
60. Jake Plummer (ASU)
60. Earl Morrall (MSU)
65. Steve Bartkowski (CAL)
66. Danny White (ASU)
67. Jeff George (ILL)
70. Billy Kilmer (UCLA)
83. Jim Harbaugh (MICH)
84. Carson Palmer (USC)
93. Chris Miller (ORE)
96. Milt Plum (PSU)
99. Brian Greise (MICH)
100. Frankie Albert (STAN)
100. Mark Rypien (WSU)

More later...

:biglaugh: So your recent argument didn't go to well so you had to run to another angle huh......yeah l'll give the better QB's of all time....not sure what that has to do with if Texas should choose another confrence or not though.....:hmmm:

 

[Miller]

League announces 2000s NFL All-Decade Team

All Decade team members from either conference:
Big 10 (5): Tom Brady, Orlando Pace, Steve Hutchinson, Ty Law, Charles Woodson

Pac-10 (4): Tony Gonzalez, Jonathan Ogden, Olin Kreutz, Troy Polamalu

 

[Kingdome]

All-time NFL greats

All-Time NFL career rushing TD leaders

3. Marcus Allen (USC)
10. Franco Harris (PSU)
16. Corey Dillon (WASH)
21. Pete Johnson (TOSU)
26. Chuck Muncie (CAL)
28. Gerald Riggs (ASU)
30. Eddie George (TOSU)
35. Lenny Moore (PSU)
38. O.J. Simpson (USC)
42. Mike Alstott (Purdue)
44. Curt Warner (PSU)
47. Larry Johnson (PSU)
52. Bill Brown (ILL)
55. Mike Pruitt (PUR)
58. Wendell Tyler (UCLA)
62. Maurice Jones-Drew (UCLA)
69. John Henry Johnson (ASU)
74. Tom Matte (TOSU)
79. T.J. Duckett (MSU)
79. Otto Graham (NW)
82. Sam Cunningham (USC)
82. Marion Barber (MIN)
91. Steven Jackson (ORST)
94. Tyrone Wheatley (MICH)
94. Ron Johnson (MICH)
94. Alan Ameche (WIS)

 

[Miller]

NFL All Decade Team

75th anniversary Team from both conferences (alums of current conference schools were counted):

Big 10 (8): Otto Graham, Bronko Nagurski, Jim Parker, Mike Webster, Dick Butkus, Jack Ham, Ray Nitschke, Rod Woodson

Pac 10 (5): OJ Simpson (u have to be proud), Anthony Munoz, Mel Hein, Mike Haynes, Ronnie Lott

Another list....another Big 10 win

 

[Kingdome]

:biglaugh: So your recent argument didn't go to well so you had to run to another angle huh.

Haven't got there yet. Mind listing where they grew up for me?

 

[Kingdome]

Haven't got there yet. Mind listing where they grew up for me?

Not going to make my talent base case for me. Dang! Florida's Steve Hutchinson, California's Tom Brady, Texas's Drew Brees (who's dream school growing up was WAZZU & joined former WAZZU assistant Joe Tiller at Purdue). Big Ten is dependent on importing elite players from outside the region. Ohio, Pennsylvania, and a few other places are serious talent hot spots, but more programs than talent available going after them.

 

[Miller]

lol, so your point is that the Big Ten can recruit Nationally and pull kids from anywhere?? Damn...that sucks, I wish we were simply dependent on our own homegrown players.....being able to compete and be known nationally is such a negative I'll tell ya (again, just a BAD argument, you take what is actually a positive and try to spin it from your warped mind that it is a negative??)....and you named 3 there.....looks to me like there were a hell of a lot more than 3 names on those lists....well maybe not for the Pac-10, but for the big 10 there sure was.

 

[Miller]

2009 All-Pro's, 1st and 2nd teams on AP, SN, and PFWA

​

Big 10 (12): Drew Brees (Tx), Dallas Clark (IA), Joe Thomas (WI), Jake Long (MI), Steve Hutchinson (FL), Kris Dielman (OH), Nick Mangold (OH), LaMarr Woodley (MI), David Harris (MI), Charles Woodson (OH), Leon Hall (CA), Nate Kaeding (IA)

9 of 12 attended HS in Big Ten States - 75%

Pac-10 (7): Steven Jackson (NV), Maurice Jones-Drew (CA), Haloti Ngata (UT), Brian Cushing (NJ), Nnamdi Asomugha (CA), Jairus Byrd (MO), DeSean Jackson (CA)

5 of 7 attended HS in western states - 71%

2008 All-Pro's, 1st and 2nd teams on AP, SN, and PFWA

Big 10 (7): Drew Brees (TX), David Diehl (IL), Joe Thomas (WI), Steve Hutchinson (FL), Kris Dielman (OH), Charles Woodson (OH), Antoine Winfield (OH)

5 of 7 attended HS in Big Ten States - 71%

Pac-10 (7): Tony Gonzalez (CA), Haloti Ngata (UT), Terrell Suggs (AZ), Nnamdi Asomugha (CA), Troy Polamalu (OR), Reggie Bush (CA); Brendon Ayanbadejo (CA)

7 of 7 attended HS in western states - 100%

2007 All-Pro's, 1st and 2nd teams on AP, SN, and PFWA

Big 10 (8): Tom Brady (CA), Braylon Edwards (MI), Matt Light (OH), Flozell Adams (IL), Steve Hutchinson (FL), Aaron Kempman (IA), Mike Vrabel (OH), Bob Sanders (PA)

6 of 8 attended HS in Big Ten States - 75%

Pac 10 (5): Tony Gonzalez (CA), Lofa Tatupu (MA), Nick Barnett (CA), Marcus Trufant (WA), Troy Polamalu (OR)

4 of 5 attended HS in western states - 80%

Total all 3 years(takes out duplicates over the 3 years):
Big 10: 17 of 21 - 81%
Pac 10: 12 of 15 - 80%

So.....all we can't get our own home grown talent?? The Big 10 has more All Pro's (17) that attended HS in Big 10 states than the Pac 10 has all pro's total!! We also were able to recruit more All Pro's from other states (4 ot 3) which IMO is a positive as well, shows the ability to recruit for your program on a National level. The % is almost identical....

Next time some research prior to throwing shit against the wall would be nice...

​

 

[Miller]

Let's do the same on the All-Decade teamers:

All Decade team members from either conference:
Big 10 (5): Tom Brady (CA), Orlando Pace (OH), Steve Hutchinson (FL), Ty Law (PA), Charles Woodson (OH)
3 of 5 from Big Ten states - 60%

Pac-10 (4): Tony Gonzalez (CA), Jonathan Ogden (DC), Olin Kreutz (HI), Troy Polamalu (OR)
2 of 4 from Western States - 50%
**Hawaii would be Pacific, and not Pac-10, but in reality, I gave you Utah which is not Pac-10 state either. If you count Kreutz you have 3.

Again, Big 10 has more overall, and more home grown talent than the Pac-10 on this list.

​

 

[Kingdome]

lol, so your point is that the Big Ten can recruit Nationally and pull kids from anywhere??

So can programs in the other conferences. My point is the Big Ten is at a comparative disadvantage than other conferences geographically. Some parts of Big Ten country are talent rich, but there is much more competition for that talent. The Big Ten not only has to fend off other conferences and Notre Dame for the local recruits, they are also dependent on bringing in players from other parts of the country.

The Pac-10 region has a large surplus of talent, far more talent than major programs. It is one of our comparative advantages. Texas right now has the same advantage. Joining the Big Ten will help open up the state of Texas to a whole slew of programs from talent poor areas, which hurts Texas. If Texas joins the Big Ten, they are more likely to poach kids out of California than have WSU or Oregon poaching one of their top recruits out of Texas.

Looking at current demographic trends, the Big Ten will be at any even larger disadvantage in the future. That is why the Big Ten is almost dependent on adding a Texas to maintain their elite status. Like I have been saying: the Big Ten needs Texas more than Texas needs the Big Ten.

Damn...that sucks, I wish we were simply dependent on our own homegrown players.....being able to compete and be known nationally is such a negative I'll tell ya (again, just a BAD argument, you take what is actually a positive and try to spin it from your warped mind that it is a negative??)

Interesting spin, but you totally missed my point. Are you at an advantage being in a talent rich area or a talent poor area?

Take off your Ohio State glasses for a second. Since you are from Ohio, you might not notice it, because that is a football rich area, but other parts of Big Ten country do not produce enough talent to sustain the local programs at an upper level. Plus the power Big Ten programs, Notre Dame, and other schools pluck away some of the top recruits from them. In more talent rich areas, you can afford to lose some of the locals. That is why Big Ten teams are forced to recruit Texas, Florida, Pac-10 country while the Pac-10 doesn't have to go outside of its region at all. Sure, we take players from throughout the country, but we are in no way dependent on it. Arizona is the only Pac-10 program with an assistant's main recruiting base east of the Rockies, and that is because they brought in a Big 12 coaching staff with Big 12 area ties, plus they happen to be located between Texas & California. Arizona can survive without recruiting much east of Tucson, Dick Tomey did well.

There are 15 BCS programs within a 300 mile radius of Massillon Washington HS. There are only 10 BCS programs west of the Rocky Mountains.

 

[Miller]

I'm not missing the point, the point is poor and off based. Your claim was....and these are YOUR words:

Big Ten is dependent on importing elite players from outside the region.

I have shown you a surplus of All-Pro's from the Big Ten states that dwarfs the list of the Pac-10. If the west is over-flooded with talent that the Pac-10 attracts, then where are the numbers? Where are all these all-pro's that the Big ten does not have? I'm just asking.....because once again, I gave you facts.....and you gave me your opinion that you failed to back up with facts.

Just give me the Pac-10 all pro's that i missed.....Just show me that the Big Ten has to pull in their all pro's from other regions at a higher rate than the Pac 10 does...

Fact is the Big 10 has two top 5 states from a HS football talent standpoint IMO in Ohio and Pennslvania. (Florida, Cal, and Texas are the other 3). They also have the talent rich Chicago area. This area has been producing more All-Pro's from the Big 10 than your talent rish west coast has been producing for the Pac-10.

If the Big 10 is at a disadvantage, it sure is not showing up at the NFL talent level yet, as I have shown you, it is the Pac-10 that lags behind the Big 10 in this area.